Project and Supplier Management for highly regulated industries⎜ Thurman Co., LLC ⎜ EP 188

Ryan Cramer: What's up, everyone. Welcome to my corner of the internet. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer. And this is Crossover Commerce presented by PingPong Payments, the leading global payments provider helping sellers keep more of their hard earned money. Hello, everyone. Welcome back to another episode of Crossover Commerce. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer, and this is my corner of the internet where I bring the best and brightest in the Amazon into eCommerce space. That being said, I just want to give a quick shout out to our presenting sponsor back behind me as you can see the logo of felt, but that's what it is doing live. I didn't see that before we got started, but PingPong Payments is our presenting sponsor. What PingPong Payments does it helps people save more of their time, money and effort. If you're doing cross border payments of any kind, whether it's paying your manufacturer or supplier or just your virtual assistant or any overseas entity, and you want to pay them in localized currency, PingPong Payments is a solution for you. It's free to sign up. It's quick and easy. Once you have all of your KYC or your compliance information put in and it takes no problem to set and receive money that day as soon as you get approved. So once you get approved, it's free to sign up and start saving money instead of going through costly banks, going through any other solution that might want you to pay exorbitant fees, it's really great to save money this time of day or obviously this time of year, obviously, but when it comes to your business, every dollar matters. And that's where PingPong Payments comes in. Sign up for free today. You can go to usa. pingpongx. com/ podcast or you can just go and search for us online on Google. And that would be the best way to find us, but go into that podcast website, you can find all of our past episodes of Crossover Commerce as well as the transcripts and all of our past 188 or 87, I should say right now, episodes that we've had date as upload the transcripts, the key takeaways, everything like that will be uploaded as well. That being said, this is episode 188 of Crossover Commerce. We're trucking right along on this week. We started out yesterday with just really great information in terms of traceable with looking at AI and helping you build as your next key businesses are coming on the line in those native brands onto either marketplaces like Amazon or your on your direct to consumer. Today, we're going to take a little bit different look at what industry is looking like today and the agents. And it's literally touching everyone in the business landscape. And that is project management as well as supplier management for highly regulated industries. So what does that mean? That's a great question. What's a highly regulated industry? Is it difficult to get goods and products in? Is it difficult to work with manufacturers or distributors? What does that lead time look like? We're going to cover all those questions and get those answers for you. So if you have questions like that, believe it or not, this is live podcast if you are new to joining us, you can ask your questions on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube or Twitter, and just submit those into the comment section. We'll see those pop up on the screen and we'll get our guest and myself to answer those questions as they come through. Or if you would just want to say hi, that's also okay as well. So without further, I want to go ahead and bring on our guest today. Her name is Angela Thurman. She is the founder of Thurman Company. She is from Houston, Texas, and she's going to be joining us here on Crossover Commerce to talk about just that very topic. Without further ado, Angela, welcome to Crossover Commerce. How're you doing today?

Angela Thurman: Good morning, Ryan. I'm doing fine. I'm happy to be here. And it's great to talk to you and your audience.

Ryan Cramer: Well, I appreciate that and I know they appreciate that too as well. So you're joining us from Houston, Texas. A lot of people think what's in Houston, Texas. I know it's in Houston, Texas. It's the hub of aerospace engineering, but I know your background, but for everyone else who may not have heard of you or wants to learn more about you, give me your minute or two of who Angela is.

Angela Thurman: I'd be happy to. So I'm an electrical engineer by training and I have a master's degree in telecom. So my background is pretty much in telecom and aerospace. So my first job out of college was with NASA where I-

Ryan Cramer: I've heard of them.

Angela Thurman: Yeah, we've heard of them. So I worked on the power systems of the space station prior to launch. So it was way back. So I managed suppliers who were developing the power systems of the space station. And then several different courses in my career. I landed in telecom, worked for different companies, landing ultimately with Sprint. And so I worked in the planning departments, where we were figuring out how many different pieces of the equipment do we need to service this market. And then actually putting new equipment, whether it was fiber optic cable, laying fiber optic cable, putting in new switches and so forth for the backbone, the cellular equipment as well. And then one thing led to another. And then I was back in aerospace where most recently I spent 10 years with Collins Aerospace, a major US aerospace company where I managed suppliers, where we would purchase complex devices that were then integrated into systems that Collins sold to all the large OEM companies, original equipment manufacturers like Boeing and Airbus.

Ryan Cramer: Wow. So you had a hand in a lot of the different things, the comings and goings, if you will. I think it would be fair to say the ins and outs and the pieces to make essentially rock rockets or just make the inner workings of rockets become available. Is that fair to say?

Angela Thurman: So I've never really worked on a rocket project.

Ryan Cramer: I would say like for engineering-

Angela Thurman: Space stations.

Ryan Cramer: Space stations and things like that.

Angela Thurman: Space station and aircraft. Yes.

Ryan Cramer: Holy cow. Well, I want say if people say I'm not a rocket engineer or a rocket scientist or anything like that, you're darn, well, close to the closest thing I know in terms of that capacity.

Angela Thurman: I always have this little joke. I tell people that I'm not a rocket scientist, but I can introduce you to one.

Ryan Cramer: Oh my gosh! That's fantastic. Well, it's such a cool background. So it sounds like your plan was always to get into aerospace engineering and project management. At least you specialized in that. Super valuable, especially in today's era. Obviously as people were coming and going back in the... Was it'50,'60, 70s, obviously the space race to the moon, but nowadays, it seems to have become ramped up. And I'm just curious, again, we're talking aerospace. Now it's become a tourism attraction where I believe the likes of, if you're a football fan, which I'm going to assume in Texas, likes of Michael Strahan going to space this week, I believe. And it's just a thing where you're going to go around and you see billionaires pour of money into, like Jeff Bezos, Elon Musk, they're putting a lot of money into space exploration. So what's that been like for the aerospace industry as a whole?

Angela Thurman: Well, it's just expanded exponentially. And, of course, here in Houston, we see a lot of that. We've got not only NASA, but we've got a lot of the commercial space companies as well. So that's really at the Ellington Air Force Base and so forth.

Ryan Cramer: We're not going to go out of business anytime soon. That's perfect. So I guess my question is what you do currently right now. What is your day to day life? So for people who are painting the picture, and you're my listener, and they're saying project management and supplier management for aerospace, how can that apply to you? What is the genesis and why is that a difficult job to do? So I guess I'll start of, why are you the master at figuring out this puzzle that we all are trying to solve?

Angela Thurman: So you mentioned, and I'm focused on highly regulated industries. So air transport is a highly regulated industry, primarily because of the safety factors that are involved. So anytime you're dealing with something where the public's life, their safety is involved, there's going to be go government regulation of that industry. And rightly so, another industry that we would consider highly regulated would also be the automotive industry. So there are a lot of safety factors and guidelines. And you don't just go out and put together some random pieces and parts and drive that vehicle on the highway unless it's been approved and certified and it's regulated. It has to pass certain safety checks. Another industry would be the pharmaceutical industry, and that's for the public health and safety. Food and beverage, there are a lot of things that have to be controlled for public safety.

Ryan Cramer: Right. I was going to say, I think a lot of the things that I'm hearing are things that you either... Like obviously transportation and travel, very regulated industry because your lives are literally in that product's hands. More even scaling it down, though, anything that you consume or you put on yourself, I would say topical or consumable. Is that something that you also work with as well in terms of ingredients or making sure those... Like, for example, a supplement or baby food or an even electronic, like a small electronic, are all those things that you touch as well or is that something a little off your radar for now?

Angela Thurman: That is something that I certainly would consider. I haven't in the past, but the processes that I use would be applicable to those markets, certainly.

Ryan Cramer: Okay. So with that being said, how does that process work? So is there a way or is there a place that you can go as... If I'm an entrepreneur, a small business owner and I want to start a business, whether it's in some of those categories, right? I'm not going to myself make a car, but I want to have a business of maybe a supplement or an electronic or something that could potentially pose a risk. And I want to vet this out, do I come to you first, Angela? Or is this down the road after I've made my product, I've had my sample and all of a sudden, I go, I want to get that last check box before I start selling it? Where do I come to you in that process?

Angela Thurman: Well, a good thing to do is someone in that position might come to me and at ask, what are the processes? What is the process to ensure that I've met all of the FDA type of requirements? Is this going to be a food or a drug? What process map do I need to have in place for my manufacturing process? What is my factory going to look like? How can I make that efficient? What do I need to consider about my own suppliers, my ingredients, my packaging, my shipping and delivery, and that sort of thing? And how do I ensure that those suppliers are going to be successful and make me successful? And that's where I can help as well.

Ryan Cramer: Wow. There's a lot to unpack there and a lot to think about. So where's the biggest problem that lots of people come to you for an answer? Is it in that planning stage or is it in making sure that those check boxes are made and say, hey, again, I don't know if this is going to be a drug or a food or what's going to be classified, because I'm assuming there's going to be lots of different... Once it goes down one path, there's going to be way different regulations.

Angela Thurman: Different questions, different regulations. Yes. My sweet spot, if you will, is those small to medium size businesses who have begun to recognize that their supply chain is at risk and they don't have the in house expertise to identify and mitigate the risks that they're exposed to. And that's what my team and I help with.

Ryan Cramer: So what would at risk mean? Let's clarify that for people. So at risk-

Angela Thurman: There are so many risks in the supply chain. So it could be something as simple as, oh, I have a vendor that is a small family owned business and they don't have any business continuity plan for what happens when the patriarch of the family steps down. And so what will happen to my vendor at that point?

Ryan Cramer: Interesting. So if I'm working with a supplier or manufacturer and my point of contact just stops working, they retire, they move on, worst case scenario, they die, and you no longer have that point of contact in, I'm assuming a different country or just part of the world, what happens? Is that-

Angela Thurman: That tribal knowledge goes away too. And that happens in so many small businesses. It's like the father who started the business, has been running the business for 25 years, has not transferred any of that knowledge, has not documented any of that knowledge.

Ryan Cramer: So is that on the... Sorry, I don't mean to cut you off.

Angela Thurman: Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: Is that on business owner or is that more on the suppliers side? To me that would be the business owner. Would that be the business owner's fault or is that the supplier's fault or is it...

Angela Thurman: Well, in this particular case, that small business owner is your supplier. So as my small to medium sized company who is using that vendor, what are you doing to audit your supply chain to expose that risk?

Ryan Cramer: Makes sense. Okay.

Angela Thurman: And then you have the every day world events types of risks. So what happens when for years, you've thought, oh, if I aggregate all my purchases of these widgets with one supplier, I'll get a volume discount. My costs will go down. And so that's what I'm going to do. And then lo and behold, there's a tornado in the town where that supplier manufactures, and now you can't get widgets for three months. So you have to balance those sorts of purchasing decisions. Maybe you should not aggregate 100% of your widget purchases. Maybe you should have a balance of 60-40, and try and get your widgets from two value added suppliers, still getting the best pricing that you can, but mitigating some of the risks that both suppliers would be out of business at the same time, because of some.

Ryan Cramer: Is that a big problem you're seeing with lots of different small business owners, they're solely relying on one source? And if you take away that leg, for example, the traditional milk stool, if you will, of the three legged milks, so if you take away one of those legs, it all topples over. Is that what a lot of people are suffering from right now is I only have one source of manufacturer or supplier and I don't have a backup plan?

Angela Thurman: Yes. Because for so long costs have driven all of those decisions. And there has been a decision to put all your eggs in one basket to get the best price.

Ryan Cramer: So in that capacity, we see that too. So if I'm listening to this, I might relate to this as a seller or a business owner and say, so that's why it's taking me so long to get my products into my warehouse, where it used to be in time shipping or fulfillment. Now, in 2021, it's become more apparent that when you strain the system, whether it be just on eCommerce or just in business in general and you have all these external factors weighing on you in a well oiled machine, one piece of the cog can completely come undone everything in between. So how are you helping people find those different solutions to help say, well, if this part of the supply chain breaks down, it's all going to naturally shift over to this one with my help and this is what we can do?

Angela Thurman: So my team and I have a risk factor analysis that we can help companies perform, where we evaluate a wide variety of supply chain risk. And it can be everything from, does your supplier have a documented process for all these different things to how do they manage their inventory once it hits their dock? Or let's say, they're an electronics manufacturer and their operators are going to be soldering parts onto a board, for example. Do they have documented evidence that those operators have been properly trained in how to solder? And are they regularly updating their training? All of those sorts of questions. There's just a whole variety of things. Do they have a plan for ensuring that their facilities are cared for, updated? Everything from have the fire extinguishers been checked to who's in charge of the HVAC and checking that, maintaining that type of equipment.

Ryan Cramer: So as a business owner, this might sound blunt, do some of those things matter to a point? If I had a report, and I'm going to say this Angela, I'm going to just be very blunt. If I had a report and I said, everything looks good, but the fire extinguishers, they're not up to date or up to code, does that matter to me as a business owner or what are the major components that you're like, no, well, this actually matters and this is why? What are those key components that people might overlook, but they actually are a very important part of showing who this business is? And you have maybe an example or two that you can tell that customer, in this case, myself of, no, let me tell you why that actually matters and this is why.

Angela Thurman: Well, just using the fire extinguishers as an example, yeah, you want to make sure that their facilities or have working fire extinguishers, any event that they needed them. And it also shows evidence that they care about the maintenance of their facility and that they're investing in the maintenance of the facility.

Ryan Cramer: Makes sense. So in that regard, what are the major ones, what's that major component that you require every customer to look at of these are the must haves? If it's my wishlist on a supplier, this is Angela's must haves on a reputable supplier or manufacturer. And so that if our clientele here at PingPong say," Oh, mine doesn't have that, maybe I should look into that more," and it sparks that thought process, what are the must haves for you and your team that they have to have checked off?

Angela Thurman: I would say a business continuity plan, a quality management plan, a materials supply plan. So how are they ordering material, how are they receiving it in and how are they keeping their inventory. That would be really important. And then the rest of them depends on what business they're in.

Ryan Cramer: Sure. Is there a country or countries that you are seeing are working a lot with? Is this a lot of the old traditional model? I say traditional, it's still very popular of 90% of it feels like if manufacturing happens in China, it depends on the materials that obviously you're using. It could be natural one, if they're natural products they're coming from India. Is there other countries that you're working with besides those two major ones globally for US spaced sellers or entrepreneurs?

Angela Thurman: Well, my company is very, very new. I only formed my company in June. And so it's still trying to-

Ryan Cramer: Work in progress, right?

Angela Thurman: It's still a work in progress and trying to get companies to recognize that there is solution available. So I would say-

Ryan Cramer: So who are the ones you're working with right now? I guess, what countries you are in constant working with and you have that great relationship already within the six months you've been working with?

Angela Thurman: I can't say.

Ryan Cramer: Oh, you can't say. Okay. So nevermind. I was going to say so is there... That's no problem. So we'll table that for my other thing is... So I guess that leads me down the question of why now? Again, six months into a business, why now? And why is this the solution that you and your company fit as a solution? Was there a glaring need that you were just constantly coming over and over again, and this is the one where you are finding this nice little space that you and your team can sit in and say, there's a lot of opportunity here and this is why?

Angela Thurman: So when I was at Collins, I was a subject matter expert and a team leader for Collins for doing this. And I would lead a team to go out and evaluate existing or perspective suppliers. And it usually was weeks of work. So we would send a questionnaire out to the supplier in advance to help them prepare, and then we would actually be on site usually for about three or four days. We would tour their factory with intensity and then we would spend the rest of our time quizzing their team on all these various areas of risk and then provide an output for their leadership team with the results of our findings. And that was something that I really enjoyed and I found a lot of value in it. And so when I formed my own company, I thought, especially in the midst of what we are experiencing in the world today, and I can't go a single day without hearing supply chain on the news and-

Ryan Cramer: Same here.

Angela Thurman: Yeah. I thought this just seems to be something that is missing in our economy. And I felt like I could improve on what I saw was being offered in the market. So I wanted to make that available as a service when I launched my company.

Ryan Cramer: Fantastic. I love hearing those stories because I saw an article recently, and you may have seen this too, I believe it was either in... It was a major publication newspaper. It was is a supply chain management albeit, it's tough right now, is this the opportunity where innovation really comes and opportunity happens where instead of just complaining and fixing what we already had in place. And I think with any strain on any system, whether it be in logistics, like it is currently right now, or medical or in economic or retail or anything like that, once you find a certain strain on the system, that's where a lot of innovation comes. So with that being said, you have your hands and boots on the ground in that place. From early before, let's call pre pandemic 2019 to now, what have you seen as a major change in the project management or even supplier management space and it's really impressed you as you've seen that grow in just that short amount of time?

Angela Thurman: In project management, I think the number of people that actually are wanting to become project managers, as a member of PMI, I've seen a great increase in the number of people wanting to join PMI, a greater interest in becoming a certified project professional. There are new groups forming on LinkedIn all the time, people wanting to further define a group, a study group or a special interest group, something like that, the availability of content to help you prepare for project management careers, that's been really, really good. And then new tools being developed to help project managers succeed. I've seen a lot of that as well, because I've been a project manager for over 30 years. And it's really encouraging to see that the career is being recognized and held up as a choice that this could be a career path that you can choose and you can be successful in.

Ryan Cramer: Absolutely. I was thinking when you were saying that, I've had a lot of people on this show that have said, there's just a lot of opportunity, not just in the supplier management side, but also just women in supply management. So that's another emerging market, which I never thought to think of that. And it's not just people behind computers or anything that is like truck drivers, it's people that are at the docks, that are people who are in factories. It's all this ecosystem. So, Angela, what's looking more at the business side? And this highly regulated industry, I would think that it's very niche for you guys, because you're familiar with this. Is that something that is more times? What's the time equity that you have to put into something like this industry versus something where if you're creating, like you said, a fidget spinner or something like a piece of clothing, clothing is a little bit different, can go either way, but a ceramic mug or something where it's pretty cut and dry, there's no-

Angela Thurman: More consumer goods?

Ryan Cramer: Right. More consumer goods, no real inherent risk, I would say. Like still risk needs to be checked off, but no real inherent risk. What's that varying degree of which you have to one versus the other?

Angela Thurman: Well, the highly regulated industries, like aerospace, for example, you have to factor in all of the additional time and effort to get the product approved or in some cases, certified. And that really requires additional effort by the project manager and a lot of other team members too. But there's all of the testing and the documentation that has to be submitted to either the certification body or the government agency, whatever that may be. So let's say that you've got a new part that's going to go on an aircraft. And that part has to go through a number of different tests. It has to go through electrical, magnetic, interference testing. It has to go through things like smoke and toxicity, water, vapor testing, fungus growth testing. It's a huge, huge number of tests. And it takes months and has to pass all the tests and you submit this to the FAA. Then they have to review it and approve the part before you can begin to manufacture. And so the project manager has to track all of the tests, and that they pass the tests in a certain sequence. And then submitting that evidence to the FAA, getting the approval of each test. And you usually have to do some of these at outside lab so you have to book the time at the outside lab and that involves payments and contracts and things like that. It's just a lot that has to happen.

Ryan Cramer: So I guess in that regards, why do people get in this space if it's so regulated? I would say, no, I guess like a consumer, this would be... If I'm a business owner and I potentially want to create a product, like you said, or a consumable or something that has to go through the stringent test, first and foremost, where do I go and learn about all the different kinds of testing that might be in that category? And is there a resource that you can point people to? And the second, do people just when they get into the space, they don't have that sense of, there is a lot of background, the testing? Is it just as simple as people just aren't aware of that resource or they haven't had it done before they get into it?

Angela Thurman: I think that most people that are going into this area are aware that they'll have to go through these areas of test. And yes, the FAA does publish these are the DO testing. And you can ask what testing does my part have to complete? And it partly depends on what area of the aircraft the part will be located? But why do people go into this? A lot of it is, well, obviously for the money, but then also, well, there's a certain glory factor, I think, because it's exciting to be a part of this industry. And I think that, that's part of it too.

Ryan Cramer: What's the most exciting thing day to day that you have to do and are getting to do that gets you excited waking up? And then is there a consistent headache that keeps occurring over and over again that keeps you maybe up at night? What are those two answers for you?

Angela Thurman: Well, I love getting up and going to work every day. And I love solving problems for my customers, whether it's a software integration or a manufacturing solution. I'm also the secretary for the Texas Chapter of Women in Manufacturing. And so if it's mentoring someone that's just coming into their career in manufacturing, there's a lot that challenges me every day and gives me a purpose.

Ryan Cramer: Absolutely.

Angela Thurman: So yeah. As far as headaches-

Ryan Cramer: Where do you start?

Angela Thurman: There are challenges, there are opportunities every day, and I wake up in the middle of the night and I'm like, oh, don't forget to do this. And I'll send myself a text or I'll add it to my to- do list on my phone every night. So I think that growing to- do list is my headache, but I'm very, very grateful for my assistant that keeps me grounded and helps me with the to do list.

Ryan Cramer: Absolutely. We can all use a good assistant here.

Angela Thurman: Oh yeah, absolutely.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. I keep trying to find one and hasn't happened yet, but we need a crosstalk.

Angela Thurman: I can make a recommendation for that.

Ryan Cramer: I was going to say, I know there needs to be a lot more. But that's opportunity. And I think when I was looking at your background too, you love learning and growing. And there's a lot of that opportunity. And news, I think broke yesterday, talked about manufacturing in Texas. I believe Samsung just announced that they're putting a semiconductor, a pretty significant huge one-

Angela Thurman: A huge one in Austin.

Ryan Cramer: ...inTexas. I was going to say so or just outside of Austin. So that being said, I hear a lot. I'm going to go hone in on Texas a little bit, just because I feel like a lot of people talk about logistics coming through California or obviously on the coast. Texas is like this hidden... Clearly, from Asia or the Eastern countries, getting to Texas is a little bit more difficult, because you have to go through Panama Canal and whatnot. But how has Texas fared in terms of logistics in getting import export, because obviously Houston's a part of that. I believe there's a couple other major ones on the coast of Texas. What's Texas's growth been like for you as part of this manufacturing chapter that you were talking about a little bit earlier of? Is it exciting? Is there a lot of growth and you don't know where to turn your head and give attention to? I feel like there's a lot of being put into specifically Austin, Texas, but just all around Texas in general.

Angela Thurman: Texas is definitely growing, and Houston in particular. We talk about Austin. Austin is just blowing up. Houston is as well. And it has been for a long time, the fourth largest city in the United States. And I would not be surprised if with the latest census, it doesn't exceed-

Ryan Cramer: It overtakes Chicago.

Angela Thurman: It overtakes Chicago. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. I was going to say it would be New York, LA. Chicago was always third and then Houston, but I think it overtook Chicago. So I guess on the business sector, not that you're pitching Texas or how to... What's this... Not that a lot of people don't understand it, what's the biggest component, because I think a lot of it is manufacturing and supplier management and logistics are happening in Texas. Why do you think that, that's the case? Why are a lot of people like Tesla, like Samsung, why are they putting factories in Texas? Is it people power? Is it economic? The situation and the environment's good? Why Texas, all of a sudden making these big headlines?

Angela Thurman: Well, one reason is that Texas doesn't have a state income tax. And-

Ryan Cramer: That's a plus.

Angela Thurman: ...that's a plus. And then also there are a lot of resources. Texas is a very big state and a great interstate highway system. We do have access to the coast. And then a lot of people and a lot of people that are highly skilled. So I think that makes a big difference.

Ryan Cramer: Right. Does it also help to... Even just with the proximity, I'm talking with specific like Houston, since Houston's so close to the Mexico border, isn't that also a positive to have that hub as in Mexico and have that cross border relationship with Mexico? Can you talk about the international opportunity too in terms of Texas too?

Angela Thurman: Yeah. There are several cities along the border that just like they have in California, we do have several cities in Texas that are cross border sites where... Like we had Calexico, we have cities here in Texas that have those... This is not really my area of expertise, but-

Ryan Cramer: No, that's fine.

Angela Thurman: ...I want to say free trade zones.

Ryan Cramer: Right. That makes sense. Yeah, without going into specifics, that makes more sense where it's almost we recognize that you are working cross border as either a company or it's going go between site, if you will. I understand that.

Angela Thurman: Right. And employees going back and forth as well.

Ryan Cramer: Sure, makes sense. So wrapping up in our episode today, what's your future outlook in terms of specifically your industry? Obviously your business is growing probably substantially in the last six months since you started. And then just in this field, does it seem overwhelming or does it seem opportunistic or what's that outlook look as we close out 2021 to go into 2022? What's that real big focus for you and your team there?

Angela Thurman: So I would say that it's ripe with opportunity. And as a result, I'm always looking for really good experience project managers, whether that's software based or it's hardware based, someone with experience in supply chain. And I'm really looking forward to growing my team, helping more and more companies, particularly those small to medium size companies that need that expertise that we have to offer. And I just think that for me and my team, there's lots of opportunity and we're just excited about what 2022 has to offer. And we're here to help.

Ryan Cramer: Love it. In that regards, Angela, what's the best way people can connect with you if they have questions about maybe a highly regulated industry or just want to pick your brain about, hey, I have this problem, can you help me, either connect with somebody or yourself can help them? What's that best way to do that?

Angela Thurman: The best way is through our website, which is... Yeah, that's it, thurmanco.com.

Ryan Cramer: I come prepared.

Angela Thurman: Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: So thurmanco. com or they can connect with you. Is there another way, an email or on LinkedIn?

Angela Thurman: Email. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: Okay.

Angela Thurman: Email to me directly. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: What would that for people?

Angela Thurman: It's angela@ thurmanco. com.

Ryan Cramer: Enough. Very cool. And then is that something where you guys are constantly taking on new clients or you're just assessing? Is there anything in particular they need to know when they reach out to you that they should come prepared with?

Angela Thurman: No, just tell me your story and your needs and we'll take care of it.

Ryan Cramer: Awesome. I love that. Well, Angela, thank you so much again. I know we're going to talk a little bit after this. So why don't you stick around right there? But thank you so much for helping our Crossover Commerce. Now, I call everyone who comes on the show, a friend of the show now. So anytime that you have a need or want or if you just want to hop back on, friends are always welcome back into my corner of the internet. So thank you so much for hopping on Crossover Commerce today. No, thank you so much, Angela. And everyone else, thank you so much for hopping on Crossover Commerce today. If this is your first or 188th time for joining me in my corner of the internet, that is called Crossover Commerce. I appreciate you tuning in, wherever you might be watching from, again, LinkedIn, Facebook, YouTube or Twitter. Or if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast destination, that's where Crossover Commerce also lives too, because there's so many different places to be. We want to try to get and reach you. Obviously, Robin, also tuning in. Great job, Angela. I agree, Angela. Thank you for tuning in Robin, for listening, again, just a little bit about what we had to talk about today. Again, highly regulated industries, which are always blowing my mind. There's so many tests and different resources that are available to people. But, like Angela said, there's a lot of money making opportunities as well in those industries. But it's going to take a lot of stringent, make sure boxes are checked. You're going to make sure everything's as small as it might be or fire extinguishers need to be checked and regulated. What does that mean for your relationship for businesses and whatnot, but it all is really fascinating. And I appreciate her to spend some time to educate our audience in that capacity. I'm Ryan Cramer. This has been Crossover Commerce. Thank you, everyone, for tuning into another episode. Tomorrow, we have another great show lined up. We have the challenging the eCommerce giants with Amy Parsons of Mozzafiato. If I could speak today, I would get that name right, but we're going to start with Amy Parsons tomorrow. Really excited about talking about her Italian brand and the amazing things that they're doing over there. So that being said, make sure you subscribe to our social channels. Follow me on social media, on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram, as well as PingPong Payments. That being said, this has been Crossover Commerce. Thanks again for everyone who tuned into another episode. We'll catch you guys next time. Take care.