Using PPC to Breakthrough Competitive Categories on Amazon ⎜ Mina Elias ⎜ EP 36

Ryan Cramer: What's up everyone? Welcome to my corner of the internet. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer, and this is Crossover Commerce, presented by PingPong Payments, the leading global payments provider, helping sellers keep more of their hard- earned money. What's up, everyone? Episode 36 of Crossover Commerce here. I'm Ryan Cramer, your host from PingPong Payments. Thanks for joining us. I know yesterday we were supposed to have an episode, but that's no problem. Our guest Danny Carlson got sick, so we're going to actually roll him into a future episode. So, we're kicking off this week with the one and only, Mina Elias from Go Hydrolyte. So, Mina and I had been talking constantly nonstop. I feel like it's been months, but obviously with 2020 it feels like years that we've been chatting around with different people, but there's a lot of cool things that Mina has in the works. There's a lot of great tips that he brings every single time he talks about PPC, which is what we're going to be talking about today, and he actually is a seller himself. So, he's in a very specific category that's very tough to break through. So, we're actually going to be talking about launching products in a tough category, and maybe he can give us some tips to kind of break through the clutter, be successful, because he himself is successful for his brands, helping other sellers be successful. He's super active in the seller community for Amazon and helping other peoples grow and succeed as well. He's also an MMA fighter, so we can maybe talk about that as well. But welcome again to Crossover Commerce. Again, if you're watching us live on Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, if you have found us through Instagram, Twitter, LinkedIn even, go ahead and post your questions or thoughts in the comments and we'll be able to see those in real time, throw them up, answer your questions, and if you catch us on a different time, watch it later or save it for later. Go ahead and tag Mina or myself in those posts and we'll make sure that you get your questions answered. But that being said, I'm going to go ahead and bring Mina in to kind of talk and introduce himself. Mina, what's up?

Mina Elias: Yo, yo. How's it going, man?

Ryan Cramer: You've had a crazy couple 48 hours. We were literally just talking about how bananas that your time has been. So, why don't you kind of maybe just fill in the life of an entrepreneur and just kind of doing what you're doing right before you hopped on here.

Mina Elias: Basically I was just saying how crazy it is that in all of the years where it's never snowed in Texas, the one day that I had a flight out of Texas to LA it decided to snow like Northeast level snow. It was crazy. As I was driving, I drove... So, I woke up 5: 00 AM, drove from 6: 00 to like 9: 00, no like 10: 30 from Dallas to Austin, and I was just seeing one car accident after the next, after the next, and I'm like, " Dude, these people are not used to this." And I was kind of scared. So, I was driving 50 miles an hour or so, which is still fast, but I just didn't want anyone to kind of go crazy and hit me. It was a rental car and everything. But yeah man, life of an entrepreneur is wild. I actually traveled. So, this is a cool thing. In 2020, I traveled 17 times, so 17 different trips, so it was 34 flights. Basically as I did it, I realized like man, I'm losing so much time with work and all this stuff. So I said part of what I do, why I do this, is so I can have this freedom, and I'm not really free if I can't travel, then I'm truly not free because I can't travel because I'm not as productive. So, I made it a massive goal is to be able to have a setup and a system where I go to the airport, in the airport I'm productive, on the plane I'm productive, off the plane I go to my Airbnb or whatever, I'm productive there. I have the whole setup and everything. So, I work really hard, and now I can say anywhere I go, I'm at 80% capacity.

Ryan Cramer: That's awesome.

Mina Elias: So here in my office I would say I'm at 100%. Obviously I'm not at 100% on my potential. I'm really diving down, diving into deep work and improving my deep work, and understanding, priming myself, like my organization, everything, eliminating distractions, all of that stuff, and I've been getting a lot better at it, but I wanted to get to, because my productivity was maybe 20, 25% when I travel, and most people will say the same. I get to the Airbnb, all this stuff, nothing is set up, but I built this system where it's like in the airport I'm optimized for work. On the plane I'm optimized for work, and I actually schedule things during those times that can be done efficiently in those places. I get to my Airbnb, I have a two screen setup using a portable tablet. I have a slim wireless keyboard and a mouse. I have a compact camera and microphone, everything, all set up.

Ryan Cramer: crosstalk.

Mina Elias: No, for real. I worked hard. I made sure that any Airbnb that I go have specific things that I look for so that I can work efficiently. I found exactly the places where I can buy meal prep. I have different water bottles for different occasions. I got the whole system down. So, it's like I never miss a beat. I have my supplements are all stacked and everything. It's good.

Ryan Cramer: Well, and you kind of were super specific, and I don't think a lot of people think about that. Two things, I think traveling even right now when not a lot of people are doing it. Obviously that's up to each person. Maybe my first thought is, what's it like traveling right now? Obviously there are so many extra safety precautions.

Mina Elias: It's normal.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. I was going to say, it's probably pretty barren, right?

Mina Elias: It's normal.

Ryan Cramer: Oh, is it normal?

Mina Elias: Yeah, it's the same as when I traveled in 2019. It's the same thing. You get to the airport. It's just that you have a mask on now, and then you have people that are constantly saying, " Sir, please, put your... Sir." That's the only difference, is that crosstalk people are nagging you, but it's like there's always someone nagging you about something. I'm not against masks or anything, obviously I wear my mask and all the stuff at the airport, but it's like nothing crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Sure. You can just hear it in the background. Is it over the loud speaker too? It's like, sir over there who is sleeping, please crosstalk.

Mina Elias: Yeah. They did that. They did that yesterday. They were like, " Yeah, sorry to wake everyone up. Anyone over two years old needs to have their mask on over their nose." And I'm like, okay, it's whatever, this is all crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, turn on the noise canceling headphones, and then just crosstalk.

Mina Elias: I have these ones, the Sony 100XM3 or whatever.

Ryan Cramer: Those are nice.

Mina Elias: They're noise canceling. So, I have on my phone a few binaural beats that are saved, and they're for work focus. So, when I put them on, literally it's like... You know how everything goes black and you just have light on what's in front of you? It becomes like that. I have playlists for priming. So, there are certain things that I listen to that will give my... I'm huge into priming, obviously because of MMA and everything, but there's certain playlists that I'll listen to that will give my body and brain and signal, hey, this is about to happen. It just helps you get into the zone way faster. Yeah. So, I mean, some people will be like, "Oh, I can't really work on the plane." And all that stuff. Listen to podcasts and audiobooks. I milk every single minute, you know?

Ryan Cramer: Right. Time is a commodity that you can't get back, so you have to optimize it as best you can. I was asked today when I woke up, I had a call with someone from Israel and they're like, " When do you sleep?" And I go, " Honestly, I'm just super productive." Before I'm in bed I shoot off a couple networking messages to people and say, " Hey, we should connect." And then typically when I wake up there's at least five or six meetings on my desktop for that day, or the next couple days. I'm like hey, I'm just making time work for me, because if I'm not awake, I need something to be happening. But, for those who are watching, again, on live, or if they're watching later, you've been around, you've been a seller for a little while. Maybe give us context, your background, and how you got to where you are today, because I think your story is super fascinating. It's not a typical one by any means, but something, almost like your entrepreneur... You wanted to kind of step away from your nine- to- five job, like typical, but you are an athlete as well. So, maybe break down your background for those who may not have heard you speak before.

Mina Elias: Yeah. So, I was born in Egypt. When I was two moved to Dubai with my family. My dad got a job there, it was way better. So we moved there, and then from two to 18 I was in Dubai. Went to college in Connecticut, in America. This is a whole other story, so I'm not going to get into that, but basically studied chemical engineering and chemistry for my bachelor's. Studied industrial engineering for my master's. So, I did my bachelor's, finished my bachelor's in 2014, finished my master's in 2018. So, started my master's in 2017, beginning of 2017. Basically I was just following the path that everyone loves to follow, like the go to school, get good grades, and I was on point. So, college, high school, I had really good grades. I got accepted into all top school. The reason I ended up in Connecticut is because of visa issues. So, I chose Canada, and then Canada didn't give me a visa, so I had to settle for America, not really settling, but I wanted to go to one of the Ivy League schools that I had applied to and got accepted in, but they said you have to wait a year and reapply, and they don't accept any transfers or anything like that. So, at 17, 18 years old you think one year is a long time, and I thought that I was losing my entire life by waiting a year. So, I made the decision, obviously it wasn't the best decision, but I made the decision to go to a lesser school but still kind of be on track. So, I finished on time in 2014. I was top of my class in chemical engineering and chemistry. Then got like a corporate job, a nine- to- five. I was in new product development for a surgical devices company. Then I went into chemical safety analysis, then I went to... So, hated that because it was two screens in front of a computer and I was doing the same thing over and over again. I'm now in front of two screens, so it kind of feels like hey, it's a big circle, but now I'm doing a lot of problem- solving, a lot of exciting stuff, and leadership, and management, and I think I love being a leader and managing things. I think I just have the brain for that. So, did that. Yeah, did that and then became a project manager for a ceiling company, so radiant heating and cooling. That was the first time that I worked with a friend, and I worked in a fun work environment, and I realized that it's the environment and the people that make a job good or bad. It's not the actual work. That's when I was like, you know what? Maybe I'm okay not doing chemical engineering. Because I feel like so many of us get so invested, especially I'm talking to certain cousins and friends that are just getting out of college and they're like, " I want to do." I'm like, " Please understand that you made a decision when you were like 17 years old, 16 years old you made a decision. You're now 21, 22, you are much smarter and much wiser. Do not let 16 year old you control your life because they made a decision and said, 'Oh, I love civil engineering. Oh, I love accounting.'" And then you do accounting or you do civil engineering and you're like, " This is horrible." So, it took a lot for me to realize that. Don't let it take a while for you. But basically I was like, you know what? I'd rather do something different but be this happy, because I was having so much fun. There was a brewery right next door, it was a fun environment. We had fun. The company shut down due to some financial turbulence. So, I said, " I like project management more than what I was doing. Let me try my luck." And so I did project management for a construction. Now, that's another example of like when leadership is not good and when the work environment is not good. I had a massive office, built in bathroom, huge, but it was just like... And I was problem solving all day. But it was just like I didn't feel like I had friends. Everyone was older, like way older, 15, 20 years, at least 20 years older. The youngest was like 17 years older than me. It was like a lot of politics, because it was a small family owned company, so there was a lot of that kind of politics. Leadership was horrible. There was no pushing people to grow, there was no... They didn't appreciate people enough. They were not there to kind of say, " Oh, work hard and we'll give you raises." It was almost very penny- pinching. So, I'm glad, I'm very blessed that I was in that situation, because now as an employer, and as a leader, and a boss, I'm way, way, way better because I took all of the bad things that everyone has ever done to me as an employee and I flipped them. Now literally people come and work for me, on any of my brands, and they're like, " Wow, this is an incredible work environment." So, and I'm actively trying to become better because I have this phobia or ever becoming like any one of my old bosses. So anyways, did those jobs, hated them, and right around 2018 I was reading Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and at the same time hating my nine- to- five. Things kind of clicked, and I was like, " This is a scam. This is corporate slavery." Blah, blah, blah. So, but I wasn't really thinking about starting a business, but when I was in Egypt on vacation my dad had brought it up. That kind of sparked me to kind of look into things, and I started looking into things. I did a quick feasibility analysis. I said, " Okay, if I was going to start this company, of course it's going to be a supplement company." Because my dad, he's the one who said, " Hey, why don't you make your own supplements and sell them?" So I was like, " Of course I'm going to do a supplement company." Because I personally think I'm the best in the world, and if not the best, I can be the best in the world with supplements. It's my passion. It's an addiction. I have the background. I'm a user of the supplements. I love experimenting with them. So, it's like I'm not missing anything. There's literally nothing, no one can one- up me in terms of the circumstance I'm in. So, basically did a little feasibility analysis, and figured that it was going to be$ 5 to make, and then it sells for 25 on Amazon. Obviously, when you're doing those types of rough crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: But the math works out.

Mina Elias: Yeah. I mean, it worked out for someone who didn't know anything about business. As an engineer I was super sharp, but as a business guy, engineer and project manager, good. Business guy, horrible. I didn't know anything about crosstalk. So, anyways, went back to America, vacation was done. Made a few samples. I went to the gym, gave them to a few friends, said, " Hey, try these out. This is from a different company." I didn't even say I had a company, I said, " This is from a company. They trusted me with them." They tried them, they loved it. I made electrolytes, and the reason I did, I was on keto, and on keto you lose a lot of electrolytes in sweating. Your blood sugar levels are kind of tanked, because there is no insulin spikes, it's very hard to retain the sugar, sorry, the electrolytes. So, I created it pretty much for myself, to improve my performance, and then passed it on to my friends who I said, " This could improve your performance." And then everyone, the consensus was this stuff works. So I was like, " Okay, cool." Then on October 10th I announced, I said, " Hey, I officially I just incorporated, I officially have my own business, I'm a supplement company." Blah, blah, blah, and you feel so proud writing that stuff on Facebook.

Ryan Cramer: Here we go, right?

Mina Elias: Yeah. I'm like, " Oh man, I'm doing some great stuff." Then someone hit me up, they said, " Hey, I can get you a booth at this event if you're down." And I said, " Yeah, 100%." He said, " Yeah, just bring in product and bring a banner and come." Went on Vistaprint, made a banner, brought my product, went to the event, and I sold 25 out of the 40 that I made.

Ryan Cramer: What year was this again?

Mina Elias: 2018.

Ryan Cramer: 2018.

Mina Elias: So, November 2nd, 2018. So it was literally three weeks exactly after I incorporated, something like that.

Ryan Cramer: Okay, yeah.

Mina Elias: I basically, three weeks... I had the conversation with my dad September 14th, October 2nd I gave my friends the sample. October 10th I incorporated, and then November 2nd I made my soft launch, which I called it a soft launch. I didn't even know what a soft launch was but I called it a soft launch. People kept asking me, "Where can I buy this?" And then I said, " It's going to be on Amazon soon." This is the famous lie, the famous Mina lie, it's going to be crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Just look for it. Yeah. crosstalk, guys.

Mina Elias: Yeah. I was thinking, I was like, " Should I tell them to go buy it from the gym? No, that's stupid. Should I go tell them to..." I kept thinking, should I go tell them this, should I go... and all of my answers were going to be stupid. Buy from the gym, send me an email. Send me an email? crosstalk buy something crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, like very shady. Yeah, exactly.

Mina Elias: Call me. What, so I can... How I'm going to process your card on Square, you're going to call me and tell me your card number? So, I was like, everything seemed like a stupid answer, and I didn't want to seem stupid. Obviously the ego and everything, and do I was like, "It's going to be on Amazon soon." I was like even if it doesn't get on Amazon, I'm never seeing these people again. So, then I went home and went crazy into figuring out how to get this stuff on Amazon. Ended up realizing that it's possible to sell on Amazon, that's all I figured out from all the videos that I watched. I was like at least there's some people doing it out there, and some of them look really stupid. So, if they could do it, it's definitely a possibility. It was no longer like a dream. So, then I called the Amazon Seller Central, I said, " Hey, I want to sell supplements on your website. What do I do?" And then they were super helpful. They sent me the instructions on how to get a Seller Central account, and they sent me information on how to get ungated, blah, blah, blah. Followed the steps, got paperwork from random suppliers to get ungated. Eventually after four times of being rejected from Amazon, on the fifth time I got ungated. So, the one thing that I would say is, so from there it was just like okay, let's figure this thing out. I got into all of the Facebook groups. I was literally in 12 groups. My first thing ever was I had a friend who was in e- commerce who said, " You need to consult with Steven Black." You're going to have him soon on your podcast.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah.

Mina Elias: So, I hopped on the phone with Steven, and I was like, " Hey, so this is my story. What do I do?" And he kind of gave me a bunch of answers that sucked, but they were the right ones that you don't want to hear. Like if you told me, " Mina, is there a supplement that you can lose fat and stuff?" I'd be like, " Okay bro, so here's what you got to do. You got to start working out every single day. You got to start dieting. You got to buy a food scale. You're going to start counting your macros and logging into my food." You'd be like, " Yeah, okay, okay." And then you're going to ignore all of that and you're going to go somewhere and be like, " Hey man, do you know of a fat burner or something?" So, this is it was a crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Which is like yeah, one of those things, yeah.

Mina Elias: Steven is like, " Dude, you have a cool story, you're a chemical engineer, you're a fighter. Use your personal branding this. Make sure you keep generating reviews." And then I was like, " Oh man, he didn't give me any hacks, this guy." But I love Steven Black. Obviously I wouldn't have connected you. Steven Black has had a massive impact in my life, but basically he gave me a lot of answers I didn't want to hear. It was rough, but I kept kind of... But once I got into his group I started asking a million questions, and then I got suggested other groups. So, I got into the Brax FBA Group, and whatever Tom Wang's group, and a leader, all these different groups. I got into all the groups and I started asking questions aggressively. Everyone knows I'm either like this or like this.

Ryan Cramer: Mina, you fill up my social media profile every single day, and I'm just constantly reading your comments. I feel like you're the only one commenting on all those groups.

Mina Elias: Yeah. I also have a system now. So, now people think, they're like, " Dude, how are you always online?" I'm like, " I have a system." I'll share it with you offline, but it's a very cool system. So anyways, I'm like okay, I got to figure this thing out, and luckily I had a friend who hit me up. She said, " My sister does Amazon stuff." And I hit up her sister, and she's managing a$ 12 million Amazon account for CPG brands. So, we chatted. She didn't have too much to offer. I can say now I've way surpassed her, but she did give me one thing that changed my entire life, which she said, " You should go to ad NYC, which is a conference hosted by CPC Strategy." Now known as Tinuiti. I think they merged the company and then they rebranded to Tinuiti. So, when I went there, that was a huge moment in my life because number one, I was in a room with people who are all successful. So, I was talking to very successful sellers, and number two, I had this entire agency that I literally consulted with every single person. I would attend the talk. So for example, like AJ did a talk about listing optimization and Enhanced Brand Content, and literally the second the thing was done, his talk was done, I would go, " Dude, amazing talk. Loved it." Compliment, compliment, compliment, and then I would be like, " By the way, I have a few questions. Do you mind if I ask you a few questions?" Go ahead, ask, ask, ask, ask. Just basically anything that I can suck information from him, I would ask. I showed him my listing. He went through it, got a full audit for free. I did that with every single thing possible, and people noticed it. A guy told me, he's like, "Dude, I've never seen anyone network like you." I said, " Bro, I'm a man on a mission."

Ryan Cramer: I hope you're getting that T- shirt that we talked about.

Mina Elias: Oh yeah.

Ryan Cramer: You have to do it, man, the serial networker. I'm telling you.

Mina Elias: Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: You're connecting people, yeah, but like you said, continue.

Mina Elias: No. I'll do it. I'll add it to my list. After this call remind me, I'll add it to my list.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, for sure.

Mina Elias: Because if it's on my list, it gets done. So, I pretty much did that and a couple things that I wanted. So, obviously I went out of that conference incredibly confident because I got so much information that would've cost like thousands, and thousands, and thousands, and months of work to get, because I just asked. I sucked the information from these people. I'm really sad that COVID hit, because dude, I was thriving on this. I go to a conference and I literally will talk to 100 people and get information from them. Obviously I give, I give as much as I can give, but it's like it's different in a conference environment. But the other thing that really changed my life is because at that event I truly realized that I believe in myself and I can do this. I looked at the people that I talked to, Under Armour was there, StarKist Tuna was there. I think massive, massive, like Pampers was there, like ONE Bar was there, like massive, massive companies, and I would talk to the people and I'm like, " Dude, this guy is no different than me. He does not have anything that I don't have. He's not smarter, he's not more hardworking, nothing." And everything, I could say like I can do this or more. So it's like it really made me believe I could do this, and I remember going home that day and I was so full of energy because I was like, " Man, sky is the limit. I can do this. I can really go full- time in my business." It no longer was a wish, it was now a goal. So, crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: How were you doing selling wise when this was happening? Were you trickling sales or what was it like?

Mina Elias: I think maybe like$ 1, 000 a month in profit, and that was around-

Ryan Cramer: Okay, in profit.

Mina Elias: No, no, no, no, maybe$2, 000 a month in profit, but then by... So, I was reading Think and Grow Rich, and it says you have to say exactly what you want, when you want it, and be very specific in how you're going to achieve it, and it forces the subconscious mind to achieve it. So, every single day going to work I was saying, " By May 31st, 2019, I'm going to be making$ 5, 000 net profit per month and I'm going to be able to quit my full- time job, and I'm going to do this by increasing the sales of Hydrolyte." I was following that whole.

Ryan Cramer: Super specific, yeah.

Mina Elias: Very specific. So, every single day on my way to work I would say it like four or five times, and I always tell people say it, because the words are so powerful your mind starts believing it, it becomes like a reality. So, I don't know how it works, but it works. Try it. You're not going to lose anything. So, anyways, April 31st my job fires me.

Ryan Cramer: This was 2019 or 2020?

Mina Elias: No, 2019, 2019.

Ryan Cramer: 2019, okay.

Mina Elias: So, March was the event. I think that they started catching on that I was taking too many vacations, which didn't make sense, because usually I take my one month vacation in Egypt to see my family, so they're like, " This guy is taking too many vacations. It doesn't make sense." I don't know, they never gave me a reason why they fired me. They said, " Hey, we just got to let you go."

Ryan Cramer: And the reason was you took too many vacations?

Mina Elias: No, no, no. They didn't tell me. I'm just thinking.

Ryan Cramer: Oh, okay. Interesting.

Mina Elias: I'm just thinking because I took too many vacations. Usually I would not take any vacations and take a month in Egypt to see my family.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, that makes sense.

Mina Elias: But in 2019 I used maybe like two weeks up, so they're like, " Something's fishy. Why would he use up his vacation that he..." That's what I'm thinking. I don't know, whatever. crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Sure, yeah, we'll speculate. That's fine. Yeah, I believe you.

Mina Elias: So April 31st I was going $4, 400 a month in profit, so I was able to quit, or not able to quit, I was fired, and I was like, " Okay, my bills are around 3, 500 or so, and I'm making 4, 400, I'm good, okay." And I'm like, " Thankfully that happened and now I'm full- time." But I was like there's no way I can grow the business having$1, 000 left over. So, I said, " Okay, let me take advantage and just go on a four month vacation to Egypt." So, I flew out to Egypt, stayed there for four months, my bills significantly went down. I think I was spending like maybe 1, 500 a month. I think 1, 000 of it went to student loans and then 500 went to living in Egypt. It's like 500 there is like 8, 000. 500 here-

Ryan Cramer: Right. The cost of living is probably really low in Egypt, I'm crosstalk.

Mina Elias: Yeah. So, 8, 000, I can buy a meal with 60. My gym membership was 200 a month. So, it's nothing crazy and I was getting 8, 000. So, I was like dude, this is good enough. I was living very lavishly. I was on point in everything and I was working very hard in my business. So, after those four months I came back to America to finally move into LA and by then I was doing like$ 10,000 a month in profit.

Ryan Cramer: That's awesome.

Mina Elias: Then from there, once I moved to LA, dude, game changer, it was a game changer.

Ryan Cramer: Right. When was that? What time did you move?

Mina Elias: December 1st, 2019.

Ryan Cramer: Okay, so right at the beginning of, or close to beginning of pandemic almost.

Mina Elias: Yeah. Pandemic was March.

Ryan Cramer: It's an interesting timing.

Mina Elias: Pandemic was March.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah.

Mina Elias: So, I spent December, January, February and then I was on a trip to Austin, I came back, and as I came back, two days later they shut down.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. I feel like a lot of people remember exactly where they were. A lot of people were at the Orange Klik conference over in even Europe, they were there and they were shutting down as people were leaving. But yeah, it's such a crazy background and how you got to where you are. Just real quickly, Sharon Even, friend of both of ours, is saying hi to both of us.

Mina Elias: Hey Sharon.

Ryan Cramer: Then Jeff on YouTube, all three of us were chatting recently. I told him to tune in today, lost his internet. Everyone's losing their internet today, man. It's weird. There's a lot of internet issues. Yeah. I'm good where I'm at. I'm in the middle of nowhere, exactly. But yeah, everyone here that's watching live on social media, let us know. I posted a question at the bottom. What about PPC you struggle with? Because that's really where you kind of hang your hat on as a seller.

Mina Elias: Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: You really became a master or a master student of the game and you taught yourself all the different strategies, and specifically because we actually had a person, Brendan, who comments on our show a lot, he said, " The toughest thing to sell on Amazon is always supplements and I can never figure it out." And I told him, I was like, " Hey, just give us the time. We're going to bring in people who can help us crack it." But you didn't really have the mentality like hey, this is really difficult to crack.

Mina Elias: Dude, I didn't even know crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: This was your background.

Mina Elias: I didn't even know what was good to sell on Amazon, what's bad to sell on Amazon. Didn't know anything. I had a product made and then I said, " How can I sell it on Amazon?"

Ryan Cramer: Right.

Mina Elias: So, very different approach. I don't do any of my product research based on money and search volume and that kind of stuff. What I do do is I find solutions to problems and I make them better than everyone else's solutions, and then I validate that that solution is in demand. So, that's why I do things a little bit differently, is like okay, so for example we can touch on Nuro, this is the perfect time to touch on Nuro. Nuro is a solution to a problem that's better than everyone's solution. So, to give you guys a little bit of a background on Nuro. Basically I approached Samer Brax, who hopefully is going to come on the show soon too. He is a big Amazon FBA YouTuber, shared his journey. I love the guy because he's very authentic. No catch, zero catch with this guy. So, when I saw him on YouTube I really liked him. We became very close friends, but I told him, I was like, " Man, you need content for your channel. I want brand awareness, so let's do this collab where I'll take a product that we like from zero, all the way to launch and everything, and fully transparent, show everyone everything, how much it costs, how we formulated it, where we sourced, everyone that we used." I said, " Let's push it and even go higher stakes." I've never done Kickstarter in my life, let's get it on Kickstarter, attempt to make it a success there. From there, we're going to launch on Amazon, because what's the worst that can happen? I'm going to pay my own money anyways, so even if Kickstarter is a failure, at least everyone learns because everyone is going to watch the whole journey. Get it on Amazon, PPC everything, and then you can document, we'll release profit and loss statements every month, and just kind of just expose everything, okay? So, the product that we came up with, we wanted a nootropic coffee alternative. So, this is a replacement to coffee. We want it to be like a ritual. Everyone wakes up and they love that smell of coffee. For me, I know I would get really addicted, so I only drink coffee on Saturdays. I have a specific place, but now I've been trying different coffees. I usually go to the Starbucks in a plaza near my house. It's a beautiful area, but now I've been trying different coffees. But I'll go get a coffee and just enjoy it, sip on it, in the sun in LA, it's beautiful, but I wanted something that can replace that every day but didn't have all the negative side effects, no jitters, no anxiety, no issues with sleep. So, we created this alternative, which you get the energy from guarana and kola nut. It has nootropics, lion's mane, reishi, Cordyceps. Yeah, there you go. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: crosstalk producing as we are talking.

Mina Elias: It has ashwagandha and maca as adaptogens, because coffee really hurts your adrenal glands and fatigues them, and this stuff replenishes it. We wanted to make it into a very nice latte, something very enjoyable that you would love to drink every day. So, again, we found the problem, which was Samer said like, " Man, I like nootropics, I like biohacking." Samer said, " I have this problem, I want coffee for energy but it really kills me. It makes me jittery, anxious, and if I have it after 12: 00 PM my sleep schedule is all off." I said, " Well, that's perfect. Let's create a solution for that." And then kind of look at the demand, who likes this. We asked a lot of people, we looked on Amazon, search volume for certain keywords that involved nootropics and coffee alternative and all this stuff. The demand was there, and we knew that we could create something that is better than everyone else. So, that's how I go about creating products, is never like hey, let me find these cool little tricks and black box, all this kind of stuff.

Ryan Cramer: Right.

Mina Elias: I also want to add that everyone should follow the series. Why? First of all, PingPong Payments is a sponsor in the series. So, we wanted to really kind of over deliver on something cool. So, we reached out to people like we have PingPong, Thrasio, GETIDA, PickFu, Sellerise, Incrementum, all of those, they support us because we wanted the series not just to be like hey, watch us do this stuff. How can we take it to the maximum amount of value? Well, if we have people like you in our corner, number one, if I say, " Hey PingPong, can you help me?" You guys have Kenny in China. Can you help me with someone who is an expert in import export China? I'm sure you guys will know someone, or maybe say, " Hey man, can you connect us with someone who..." Obviously you're going to teach us about currency exchange, and wiring money, and all the best practices, everything. So, we said, if we brought all of these sponsors in, we have access and are able to provide so much more value than just like, hey, follow my journey. This is cool, there is drama, I might fail, okay, that's good, but what's better is hey, follow my journey and every step of the way I'm going to bring experts, not just to teach me, but to teach everyone about everything. So, it's super cool. This is one of my most exciting ventures in 2021. The best thing is I said that I was going to stay focused in 2021, and so instead of doing all these different things it's a brand, it's a supplement brand. I have my same supply chain, I have my same employees doing everything, listing, PPC, all of the stuff is under my employees, so I can delegate most of the work. So, I'm doubling down on what I already know, and one of the biggest lessons I learned in 2020 is I saw so many people do so many different things and be so profitable, and I don't know if you've heard of shiny object syndrome, I definitely got shiny object syndrome.

Ryan Cramer: I've had that pretty bad in the past.

Mina Elias: Yeah. So, luckily I met some people who kind of, especially one guy, who kind of said, " Hey man, you really need to double down and be laser focused." So, I'm doubling down on my supplement brands and this perfectly aligns with that, and at the same time it's going to take my skillset to the next level because of all the people like you who are teaching us about currency exchange and PingPong Payments and all that kind of stuff. People like whatever, Thrasio, who have a host of experts in whether it's listing optimization, et cetera, et cetera, so.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, I'm scrolling through and showing your website for people there, showing your brand, obviously just all the cool stuff that's going on, having your website, and making sure that... People are aware of it obviously, which is really cool in terms of what you're doing. It's Go Hydrolyte technically, but the-

Mina Elias: It's Hydrolyte, just Hydrolyte.

Ryan Cramer: Right, it's Hydrolyte too, so obviously search Go Hydrolyte, we'll make sure the link gets on there. There it is. You owe me a water bottle, man.

Mina Elias: Dude, I got you. I got you. After this. Yeah, you sent me the care package, so I'll get your information and I'll send it.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, for sure. That's kind of what we're talking about too. So, for Nuro we're really excited about the collaboration, which is a really cool project we're working behind the scenes. Mina and his team, they're actually going to be using PingPong to pay suppliers in China and find different crosstalk.

Mina Elias: crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Like today, we were talking about it right before this. We're like, " Hey, we're good to go. Your account was set up really quickly with us." We're getting you guys green lit and using our virtual cards to obviously pay suppliers over there in China, saving them money. So, obviously it's a natural collaboration. So, there'll be more. You'll see us around working with Mina quite a bit and having him back on the show, for sure. So, you and Samer. I'm super excited about the project. I think you guys are going to get a lot of interest and intrigue from it. So, we're excited to do that with you guys. That being said, supplements. A lot of people are just kind of like don't understand why that's such a competitive nature on Amazon, but it is. It's hard to rank, it's hard to be successful, it's hard to drive sales. Take us through all the different barriers of why it's so difficult. The perception is difficult, but what's actually really difficult about being successful on Amazon? What's something that's regulated? And that's why all supplements are regulated, right?

Mina Elias: Yes, exactly. So, with supplements there's a few things. Number one, because the FDA does not regulate it, it can only after the fact, like after someone gets sick they can go after someone, but you don't have to go through a vetting process. So, there is nothing stopping me right now from getting a fake certificate of analysis, getting a fake invoice, getting a fake label, a fake everything, putting gummy bears in a bottle and selling it as elderberry gummies. There's literally nothing stopping me. I could do it if I wanted to. So, because this happens, it results in a lot of... You can't really falsify headphones, you know? Headphones are headphones, they have to function, and if they don't function you are going to get screwed. So, you can't really falsify that, but with supplements you can because there's usually no direct 100%, one to one effect that you feel from a supplement. It's not like I take maca root and then next day I'm feeling like 10 times better. It doesn't work like that. It's a long process and you have to be only changing one thing at a time to really feel a significant difference, maybe you have to be taking your blood work. So, with that, it's almost like there's no way to tell does it work or does it not work, is it fake or is it real, which allows a lot of people and a lot of scammers to be on the platform. Now, because it's such a lucrative business selling supplements, there is a lot of black hat things happening in the back. So, a lot of people consider incentivize reviews black hat. That's not even black hat, this is like normal, okay? Incentivize reviews in supplement spaces is like you're behaving yourself. There's a lot of buying an old listing with 1, 500 reviews and then merging it and automatically having a ton of reviews. There is a lot of shutting down people's listings by uploading different things in Amazon. It's just like there's a lot of crazy stuff that happens, but that's all besides the point. There's a whole other issue, which I had to face, which was you're competing with 150, 200, $ 500 million companies, okay? These people have budgets and are branded, so well branded, and you don't have these budgets. So, the only leg that I had to stand on was my PPC. Now, there's two sides in Amazon. There is convertibility and discoverability. Convertibility is basically how good is my listing, my price, the reviews, bullet points, description, images, Enhanced Brand Content. How likely is it if 100 people come onto my website or come onto, sorry, my listing, how many of those are going to convert into a sale? So, that's convertibility. If you have that sorted out and you're between 20, 30, whatever, 40, some of my listings go up to like 70, 60, 70. Some are on the lower, maybe 17, 18. I really like to stay no lower than 20, but once you're okay in your convertibility, now it's like okay, let's get as many people as possible to those listings. Now, trying to rank for main keywords is... And obviously a lot of people are like, " Oh, just do rebates, and giveaways, and search find buy." Guys, I get it, but it's almost like a tool. It's not the whole picture. So, the only thing that you can do is you have to do something that's sustainable on Amazon. What I had to do is I had to really figure out PPC. So, discoverability is going to come from PPC, and it's sending traffic to my Amazon listing as much as possible, because if out of 100 people I get 30 sales, if I get 1,000 people I get 300 sales. If I get 10, 000 people, I get 3, 000 sales. So, it's kind of like worked that way. Okay. How can I get 10, 000 people to my listing every single month to get 3, 000 sales in that SKU? Well, main keywords is going to be very difficult, because like I said, all of the big brands are targeting main keywords. So, my strategy said this is what I want to do. I want to target every single keyword under the sun. So, it starts off by I have my four auto campaigns, close match, loose match, complements, substitutes, I have my main keyword under three separate campaigns, a broad, phrase, and exact. So, there's three separate campaigns. I have my top 10 keywords, and the way that I get my top 10 keywords is basically I get my top 10 competitor SKUs, no one that's super branded. So, for me I wouldn't do Liquid I. V. because people will search for Liquid I. V., buy Liquid I. V. They're not actually searching for a product, they're searching for Liquid I. V. So, I get my top 10 competitors, put them on Helium 10's Cerebro, do a reverse ASIN look up. I do advanced filters, minimum of nine ranking competitors, and it gets me the intersection of all those 10 products, what keywords they're ranking for, and I sort by highest search volume to lowest search volume, get those top 10. So, now I have top 10 broad phrase and exact. So, it's four auto, three main, three top 10, and then I start targeting my own products if I have other SKUs to kind of upsell my new product. I start targeting... What is it called? Oh, I start targeting broad, phrase, and exact branded terms, so Hydrolyte, MMA Nutrition, Hydrolyte, electrolytes, so on and so forth. So, from there, this is the overall goal, is discover as many keywords as possible and then target them. Then so those campaigns will run a week later. I run them aggressively. A few tips. I do one campaign, one ad set, and then the keywords. The reason I don't do multiple ad sets is I don't know how the spend is going to go. If I don't know how the spend is going to go, I don't want to just let Amazon control it. So, I'll control it myself. I'll just keep it linear. Then I'll do a minimum of$ 100 budget to make sure that Amazon realizes that I can spend money. Now, I'm obviously not going to spend$ 100 on every single campaign because I'll keep my bids relatively low and then work my way back up. So, a week later I'll go check in my search term reports, pull out every single keyword and ASIN that was discovered. Again, keywords I launch them as broad, phrase, and exact. Then ASINs I'll target them as product targeting campaigns, and I'll keep doing, and doing, and doing. The goal is to target every single keyword under the sun. Now, obviously you're going to be like, " Yo, this is definitely not profitable." And you're right, it's not, but you can't tell me it is or it's not if you don't have data, and that's what I'm after, is the data. So, my goal is to target every single keyword possible and then let the data, if the ACoS is too high, I'll lower the bid. If it's getting clicks and no sales, I'll lower the bid. If it's not getting any impressions, I'll increase the bid. Basically my goal is to capture every single keyword out there, get them targeted in all match types, and again, broad, phrase, and exact are completely separate. Please, don't think that if you're targeting a keyword, if you find a keyword that's successful in broad, if you put it in exact it's going to be successful. No, they just behave completely differently, and the problem is we can't predict the behavior of anything. We can only make changes based on data, and that's why I have a very, very data- driven approach. It's like if you tell me the ACoS is 70%, I'll lower the bid by like five cents. If you tell me the ACoS is 100%, I'll still lower the bid by five cents. If you tell me the ACoS is 12%, maybe I'll increase the bid by two cents. That's it. It's plain and simple. If you tell me the ACoS is 20%, I'll just leave it alone, because I just do a data- driven approach. I don't say okay, well, this keyword was successful in broad, so now let's negative it in broad and put it in phrase so that it start getting more and then put it in exact. All this mumbo jumbo, it doesn't make any sense because in every single match type, the keyword performs completely differently. So, if I have electrolyte powder in broad, it's triggering for 70 different keywords, okay? Now, whatever, maybe it's triggering for unflavored electrolyte powder, it doesn't mean that if I put it in phrase or exact, those keywords in phrase and exact that they're going to perform well. So, that's the reason I target everything, and then from there I optimize based on whatever the data is telling me. So, if for example I think that electrolyte powder for keto is going to do incredible, but it doesn't, I'm not going to argue with Amazon and the data. I'm going to be like, " Okay, it's not doing well. Lower the bid." So, I'm constantly optimizing, constantly launching new campaigns. I think for Hydrolyte unflavored I have 1, 000 campaigns running alone just for that keyword, just for that, sorry, product. That's crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Are you managing all these yourself, by the way?

Mina Elias: I have a full- time employee, 40 hours a week-

Ryan Cramer: Okay, gotcha.

Mina Elias: ... under mewho does it. But yeah, but he does it, and I also hired an Excel guy, built some macros to kind of do these... Because overall it's the same action.

Ryan Cramer: Right.

Mina Elias: If it's over a certain ACoS, do a certain thing. If it's under a certain ACoS, and obviously I can have different ACoS brackets if I want to. If it's doing a certain action, do this. It's all if and then statements. So, all I need to do is I hired someone and I told them this is the list of if statements, and then actions, consequences according to those if statements. So, if the ACoS is like over 100, do this. If the ACoS is between 180, do that. So, I gave him all the lists and he just built the spreadsheet to just follow the rules that I gave.

Ryan Cramer: He builds out a PPC SOP basically.

Mina Elias: Pretty much, oh yeah. Yeah. Then from there I also go into the search term reports and for broad, and phrase, and auto campaigns, if there's any keywords that are bringing down the whole team. If for example, for electrolyte powder everything is generally doing okay but then you have like a certain electrolyte drink or electrolyte bottle that's doing horrible, I'll negative that. By doing horrible I mean in the last 60 days over 100% ACoS or$ 10 in the last 60 days, $ 10 spend and no sales. I'll negative that, and then maybe in the future I'll remove it from negative and test it out again, but that's pretty much my strategy in a nutshell. It's nothing crazy complicated, but it's just continuously discovering keywords, launching, optimizing, and then discovering more, launching, optimizing, and so on and so forth in a nice flow. You also have to understand buyer psychology, because a lot of people will be like, " Top of search, top of search." I'm like maybe in top of search for sugar free electrolyte powder for keto you're going to do amazing because whoever is looking for that is very specific and has a higher buyer intent, but someone who types in electrolyte powder, top of search, they don't care. They're just like, so what is electrolyte powder? They're just browsing. But maybe if I'm on page three for electrolyte powder I'm killing it because by the time someone gets to page three and clicks on my listing, they're pretty interested in my product because they clicked on my listing and they skipped the first two pages. So, there's a lot that goes into it, and that's why I just fully follow a data- driven approach. Everything is granular. I don't go more than 10 keywords per campaign, because I realize Amazon is just going to pick the top traffic and performing ones and just funnel the money there. So, I used to have like 100 keywords in a campaign and then it would be like zero or one impression for everything.

Ryan Cramer: Right.

Mina Elias: And then like 10, 000 impressions for the first five or seven. I'm like okay, well, clearly there's something happening here.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Amazon's algorithm will just serve, or it just kind of pick those top ones, like you said. I think you were the one who posted too or had shared something in terms of even if it's a negative campaign or it's not successful, it doesn't mean that Amazon won't look at that campaign later on and start serving and giving more impressions later on. I think that was you that shared some content crosstalk.

Mina Elias: I'm not sure, man. I share too much content.

Ryan Cramer: No, it's not. You share so much. I learned so much just kind of picking up what you're learning. So, that's super fascinating. So, obviously PPC is number one in terms of your marketability. Is that how you... Yeah, go ahead.

Mina Elias: And the reason that I did, I went so hard on PPC is because, like I said, you're not going to be found easily, especially when you're starting. Maybe now I have 1, 600 reviews on the OG. It's okay, I can kind of hold my own, but when I first started you can't really compete in those main keywords. So, the goal was to hit up all of the other keywords that maybe you stand a chance, because remember, every time you launch a new keyword and a new campaign, Amazon gives you a chance. It says okay, let's see how people are going to react to this.

Ryan Cramer: See if they'll buy and obviously, yeah.

Mina Elias: Yeah, and if you do well okay, you'll stay. If you don't, then you're slowly going to start dropping down the ranks. So, that's why I had to. I knew that Optimum Nutrition is not spending time for their 1, 000 SKUs adding all of these keywords and looking for every single small possible keyword that they can find, but I had the time. I'm like I got to figure out a way to make it happen. So, that's kind of what I did.

Ryan Cramer: Awesome. Where are you going to iterate in like this next year? Where are you going to continue to invest? More of the targeted approach like DSP or are you going to kind of move your product down any of those kinds of paths even further? Obviously retargeting and even build off of Amazon, or do you think just sticking with Amazon for your brand?

Mina Elias: Yeah, so for my goals, for my 2021 goals is for PPC I really want to get way deeper into product detail, not detail page, display ads, sponsor display and sponsor brands, video and search ads. I really want to double down hard on that. In terms of I'm very close to finishing an omnichannel. Let me actually, if you want I'll share it real quick.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, for sure.

Mina Elias: Let me share this, because I was actually just working on it. Okay, share the screen. Let's do this one. So, I was working here like on a... I don't know, can you see my screen?

Ryan Cramer: Let me add it to the stream. Then for those who are listening on the podcast, we can obviously talk through it, for sure.

Mina Elias: Yeah, so I'm really working on an omnichannel approach. Obviously this is very, very rough, but I have Instagram, Facebook, website, YouTube, Google, anything else, and where all of my kind of top of the funnel is. Everything feeds into the website and I really want to kind of have my retargeting down. So, I have middle of the funnel, bottom of the funnel until the completion, hitting them up with testimonials, carousel ads, unboxing videos, showing up on YouTube, showing up on Google, showing up on Instagram. Then once I can do that, once anyone who visits my home page or product page is really very well targeted in all of the different channels, Instagram, Facebook, YouTube, Google, whatever, wherever I can retarget with a pixel, then I'll start kind of one by one on every single channel increasing the size of the top of the funnel. So, saying okay, let's do more carousel ads, let's do more video ads, let's do more brand awareness ads, let's do more articles, let's do more story ads, let's do more giveaways, sponsored giveaways with influencers, let's do more YouTube ads, and then just kind of slowly, since I have my middle and bottom of the funnel kind of there and supporting me, just keep widening. If I can say okay, I have 10, 000 people visiting my website right now from my cold traffic, and then as they go through the retargeting I notice that from the people who visited my website, all the way to the people who convert, it's like 1%. Then from there I can say okay, let's work backwards, and if I have 10, 000 people converting at 1% and my target sales is like let's say 1, 000 units a month, let's reverse engineer that. That means my top of the funnel needs to be driving 30,000 maybe people a month to the website, and then going down. Then maybe I say okay, well right now if I'm doing that, 10, 000 is costing me X amount of dollars a month, and with this 1% conversion I'm not profitable and I really can't tell what my lifetime value of my customer is because I don't have enough data, I've only been doing this maybe six months. So, I can't really go all in like that, so I can say okay, let's try and improve that. Where are people dropping off the most? And then try and improve the middle of the funnel, the bottom of the funnel, so on and so forth. So, that's kind of where I'm going in terms of anything that's off Amazon, is that. But other than the PPC, on Amazon it's still going to be my number one, but I really believe if I slowly on the side I'm building this omnichannel retargeting off of Amazon, eventually it'll get there because you just have to work at something if you want to get it there. But I'm really going to be aggressive this year with supplement launches. I think last year I did one, two, three. I did like three products. I think this year I can definitely hit like eight or nine. I want to take Hydrolyte at least from four to 10 SKUs. My other brands I think I want to add two SKUs to one. Yeah, two or three SKUs to one, and then Nuro, I at least want to have two SKUs by the end of the year. Hopefully everything is going to go smooth. Then I have another brand that I'll probably add two more SKUs. So, I really want to focus on having that one core team and system down, and now I'm just repeating and reinvesting into the businesses. You can see my systems, how my systems are, so.

Ryan Cramer: Dude, you're the most organized and very meticulous person I probably know in the space right now. I would love to go into more detail, but I know you got to go. I know it's kind of top of the hour for this. We'll definitely have you on soon enough. Obviously either in February or March to kind of talk through another topic, but where can people kind of reach out to you? What's the best way to get in touch with you about your business or want to ask questions about PPC? Or they watched this at a different time and they're like, " Holy shit. That was great information." Where can they find more?

Mina Elias: So, Facebook is the number one place to get ahold of me. It's Mina Elias, and then that's M- I- N- A, last name E- L- I- A- S. Instagram @ egyptian_prescription_elias. I share a lot of my life there, not a lot of it, but mostly life stuff, not business stuff, a little bit of business, motivation. Then you can, if you want PPC help, theppcuniversity. com. I have a full one hour. I have a one hour free course, a one hour free video on my YouTube channel, and then I have a one hour free course on that website, theppcuniversity. com. So literally two hours of free PPC content, and then if you need more you can go for more. But yeah, I mean, this is the best place to find me. Follow Samer Brax, or subscribe to Samer Brax YouTube channel, and that's where we're going to do all the Nuro stuff, and definitely go to the Brax FBA group on Facebook because that's where Mr. Ryan is going to show up and crosstalk all things PingPong and stuff like that.

Ryan Cramer: I'll be there, yeah. Samer's group is fantastic, especially on YouTube, just the different content he's dropping. I think it's like 10,000 subscribers plus. It's just crosstalk.

Mina Elias: And the group, it's crazy. crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, and the group is crazy. You're contributing, people are contributing across the Amazon space. I'm constantly learning. I think it's probably one of the more active groups I would say that are not service, like Amazon service provider oriented. So, I would suggest if you're a new Amazon seller, go ahead crosstalk.

Mina Elias: I think both me and Samer are really like... Okay, so part of the Nuro series is where we have a full playbook, and in that playbook it's literally step by step, every single thing that we did for the Nuro business is going to be on there. There's going to be what we did, and a video of me doing it, explaining it, me or Samer, with the links and whatever, and if there is like discounts. So, we're literally compiling everything. It's 100% free. I think the whole thing is we just really I hate seeing people getting taken advantage of. I'm not going to be here forever. My brands are growing aggressively, and eventually at some point I'm going to have to hand the torch. It's not like I'm trying to make a buck off anyone. I really just want to add value. I wish that people added value to me, the same way I'm adding, when I first started. So, it's just kind of a way to give back. I don't give back a lot, so I try my best, and this is kind of one of the ways is to give knowledge. It's not hard, it's free. I know a lot of people want to charge for it, a lot of people... The only thing I'll charge for is my time, and if you don't want my time, if you want just knowledge, it's out there, but if you want my time, you have to pay for it. That's generally how it works, but crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. I mean, just like any person out there, any business too.

Mina Elias: Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: Time is the only commodity we don't get back, but you're a busy person, we understand that. Hey, thanks so much for jumping on today. I'm super excited to obviously work offline with you guys, and you, and Samer, and the team over there. Be safe traveling out there. Hopefully everything is kind of settled down and you can catch up with everything.

Mina Elias: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. crosstalk.

Ryan Cramer: crosstalk the crazy snow. Snow in Texas, right? Who would've thought?

Mina Elias: It was a sign, man. It was a sign, like yo, chill out with the flights.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah, I mean, maybe at the beginning of this year we're just like all right, let's plan on maybe the first half of the year and let's see where we go from there. So, hopefully we're all meeting again in person here later this year. So hey, obviously I call you a friend, but friend of the show now. So, thanks so much for hopping on, sharing content with us about breaking through a very tough topic. But for more on Crossover Commerce, guys, we're going to be going live tomorrow and as well as Friday. Go ahead and join us live on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Follow Mina on Instagram and Facebook. Follow me on Instagram and Facebook. We're always posting content as much as we can. Again, on LinkedIn as well. We're always posting as much information as we can by being successful in e- commerce and Amazon to help other sellers grow. So for Mina, I'm Ryan, thanks for joining us again live. Go ahead, and if you have questions, go ahead and submit those and tag one of us. We'll make sure that those get answered later one. So thanks so much, man. Appreciate it.

Mina Elias: Peace.

Ryan Cramer: Yep, later.