How to win market share & deal with the current eCommerce challenges⎜ Accel Club ⎜ EP 220
Ryan Cramer: What's up everyone? Welcome to my corner of the internet. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer and this is Crossover Commerce, presented by PingPong Payments, the leading global payments provider, helping sellers keep more of their hard- earned money. Hey, what's up everyone? Welcome back to another episode of Crossover Commerce. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer and this is my literal corner of the internet, where I bring the best and the brightest of the Amazon and eCommerce space. I say literal because I'm here in a corner of an office, in my studio at home. That's where this podcast generated from and that's where I like to have people on, our guest today. We have people on who are experts in the Amazon and eCommerce space, experts who are people who've walked the walk and talked the talk. What you're going to learn from every episode, again, this is episode 220 of our beautiful podcast that we started way back in 2020, or end of 2020, I should say. We did this to give an educational component of what's going on in the Amazon and eCommerce world, give a unbiased perspective, but just learn a little bit more from those people who've done those great things in the Amazon and eCommerce world. So, if you're a beginner seller or if you're an expert that's looking to potentially grow internationally, this is the podcast for you. I say expert, person who's looking to build a brand and really take on a new walk of life in a new business world. That's why this podcast exists and believe it or not, it's interactive. If you're watching us live on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, or Twitter, feel free to send in your questions to myself or our guest, as always. You can just submit those in the comment section, we see those. You just throw them up on the screen and we'll make sure we can answer any applicable questions. Or if you just want to say hi, that's always nice too. So, if you're listening to us on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube or Twitter, give us a thumbs up, let us know you're listening and send us all your questions if you catch us live. Or on the flip side, if you don't catch us live, watch the replay later on, whether you're on the West Coast or somewhere else around the world, just tag us and we'll make sure that we get your questions answered. But as always, every episode of Crossover Commerce is presented by PingPong Payments. Who's PingPong Payments? Well, we are a global cross- border payments solution, helping sellers keep more of their hard- earned money. Whether that be paying out suppliers or manufacturers. Chinese New Year is just wrapping up, so you might be negotiating with your supplier manufacturer overseas, or you're looking to bring on new product and launch new products this year in 2022. If you are looking to do that, it's actually more simple, simplistic, and you save time, money, and effort when you use a solution like PingPong Payments, by paying out in localized currency. You get your money to them quicker, it's safer and it's a lot more cost effective. With that being said, it's free to sign up. Just go to usa. pingpongx. com/ podcast for all of our favorite episodes, as well as signing up for free. Go ahead and check it out today. That being said, just recapping real quick, this is episode 220. Every episode on here, we bring on a fantastic number of guests. We teased a little bit that there was going to be two people on today. Unfortunately, one of our guests, Sebastian, he just had some internet connectivity issues so I'll have to have him on silent today. But we have our original guest here as well. He's the CEO... excuse me, he's the co- founder of the business Accel Club. If you haven't heard of them, they're one of the emerging brand acquirers, aka aggregators in the space, located from different parts of the world. I've talked to their team before in different parts, such as Russia. The co- founder, Nick is actually going to be joining us today from Amsterdam. So, that being said, a global eCommerce world is truly the case here today. And we're going to be talking about what we've called this episode, how to win market share and deal with the current eCommerce challenges. And who better to do that than their co- founder? And like I said, Nick of Accel Club. Nick, thank you so much for hopping on Crossover Commerce.
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. Hi, Ryan. It's really a pleasure to be here and share ideas in our expertise.
Ryan Cramer: Well, I appreciate that. Yeah. Thanks for hopping on today. I was getting to know you a little bit pre- show. But I just want to kind of open up the proverbial floor for you, if you will. If no one's have heard of you, which you seem to have a lot of followers and a lot of thought leadership going around LinkedIn and a lot of other channels. You've done a lot of great businesses and have exited your own businesses. But I'm just kind of curious to hear from you, what's that background for you?
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. So, in terms of good ground, this was pretty straightforward. So, I was very good at math and physics at school, actually winning international competition in that. So, this why I joined the technology university, have my major in physics. But after that, for some part of the academic ground, like guys joined the BCG in Moscow office, worked for different industries, for different great strategy and operational projects. And after, just wanted to explore more startup world stuff, startup space and joined as the managing director of one of the biggest bus transportation marketplace in Eastern Europe. And yeah, after four years, we sold that to a French inaudible. They were doing carpooling. And after that success with integration, I just wanted to start something new. And this is where we joined forces with my current co- founder, Max, who has also inaudible ground in eCommerce space, was the founder of a food delivery company. And then it became one of the biggest food delivery company in Eastern Europe. And right now it's valued at, to that point, to that$ 5 billion. So, yeah, maybe join our forces in starting Accel Club. In terms, why this story, why Amazon, all that stuff, just maybe more about this. We do believe that every space that is getting more and more mature, it's just by default the market share of the systematic players will increase. And this is what we believe. Yeah. This what our inaudible is. We don't believe that we are the best M& A guy in the world. We are the best investment bankers. Or we don't believe that we are the best Amazon seller right now. But what we believe, that we are really great at building inaudible players, building great teams, great tools, and great processes to succeed in some markets. And we do believe that eCommerce today with all the challenges, with all the opportunities is the space where the market share of systematic player is really low. And there was time then in the US, there was around dozen thousands of banks. But right now we don't have even two or three, 5, 000 banks. So, it's usually as the industry is getting more and more mature, the market share, the inaudible players is grown. So, this way we believe that we are playing. Definitely, we do believe that small and midsize entrepreneurs and sellers, they will be there, but their market share will decrease in five, 10 years from now. So, yeah. So, this why we chose this space, we have that deep expertise in Amazon previously. But as I said, this is not what we play here. We believe that we can be more than capable to be a great team, great processes, great tools to really succeed in this very challenging, but from our perspective, or from the other perspective, a very exciting space.
Ryan Cramer: No, that's amazing. Well, what I think, so you said most of the team there has operated or ran or even exited their own businesses, is that correct? Or a lot of people have just operate their own brands under their own guys. Is that correct?
Nick Tuzenko: So, talking about our top team, about our executives.
Ryan Cramer: Yes.
Nick Tuzenko: It's more about, me and Max, we were previously exiting some businesses, but the other part of the team deliver more the part of some tech startups. So, they deliver building great tools and big teams for food delivery or for example, some other eCommerce businesses. So, they either inaudible. So, yes, we have, that's there is some guys, like our competitors or the other aggregators, they're saying that they are buying cashflows, but what we believe that we are buying 24/ 7 days, like job. Yeah. And we believe that we are more like operator, we work like investment fund, and this inaudible what I would say different RS and what our main expertise is that our top team, and even our VP of acquisition, this is the guy who worked in BCG also, but he also was the COO for the other startup. So, he also has this operation on the ground, which is very important when you are buying businesses and better understanding what's going on around. Yeah. So, it's not just IOR or some cashflow, some whatever. It's more about to fuel the operations behind that eCommerce business. So, we have that muscle in our operations, in our top team, in the rest of the team.
Ryan Cramer: Right. That makes sense. So, you guys are kind of banking on that expertise in the background, and is it really focused on... Is Accel Club... So, this iteration, obviously, you saw there's a lot of competition. Clearly everyone tells, there's 80, 90, maybe even 100 businesses that are" under this model," if you will. So, I guess in that regards, what is going to be that distinguishing factor? Besides operations. Is it going to be predominantly Amazon businesses? Are you looking more D2C? What is that really big focus? Are you guys, are you staying agnostic category wise? Are you really honing in? Explain for people who are listening today, what that breakdown is for you.
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. So, I would say in this regard, in terms of criteria and our focus, we are pretty straightforward. So, we're definitely looking for first of all, Amazon brands. So, 60, 70% of revenue should be from Amazon, either it's North America or Europe, we don't care that much about that. But yeah, it's like 60, 70% should be from Amazon. We're more than happy if there is a D2C, or a Chewy or eBay or whatever. Tools to buy that portion of the business. But for example, for D2C, we want... offer some, let's say D2C multipliers. Yeah. So, it would be, assess also as the part of the overall cashflow that Amazon has. In terms the category, definitely, he and inaudible our own understanding. So, we are trying to avoid fully supplements. Why? Because FTC and FDA also was doing something there. And this is the first one, the second one, due to a really high margins, let's say the penetration of black hat tactics are really high there. So, this why we just believe that we would like to stay from that space for a while. And also, we do understand that we are buying here some kind of great position, like the organic or great CTRs and conversion rates, which means we should be more cautious with the products which have shorter life cycle. So, for example, we are not doing any fast fashion. Because we understand that to be successful there, you need much deeper product expertise. The same is with, for example, heavily R& D products, like electronics, like headphones or whatever. So, you also need to build much more engineer... have more engineers in the team or need to better understand inaudible there, to be successful there. So, this why we try to stay away from the supplements space, heavily R& D products, and also fast fashion. Everything else, really like. What we love is art supply, pet supply, home and kitchens inaudible is our four... they're the inaudible categories and 80% of our current brands are in these categories. And yeah, so this what we like.
Ryan Cramer: That's great to understand, and how many brands are we operating today as Accel Club? Is it something that you tell publicly or is that something that you crosstalk-
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah, there's number of brands, I'm not disclosing that. And I didn't know that it's really like a measure, because it's like you have... We buy some brands, we are like three million in revenue. Some of them are 20 million revenue. So, it's not comparison.
Ryan Cramer: Sure.
Nick Tuzenko: But I'm not going to share you... saying that the first one we are operating there 1, 300 products. So, this is our current inaudible. 75, 80% of sales are in the US and 15 in... Yeah, there's, I guess, eight to 10 in Canada and the rest is in Europe, in Germany. And in terms of the overall revenue, it's closer to 100 million. So, this is where we are right now.
Ryan Cramer: Wow. Well, that brings up a great point, Nick. Do you feel that a lot of the statistics that get thrown out in the space, whether it be, hey, how many brands do either you run or operate, or any business might run or operate? Is that misleading in terms of the quantity metrics of, hey, like you had mentioned before, one brand might only operate 500,000 in revenue, but one brand might also do 20 million in revenue. So, there is no really great comparison in terms of what one brand operating revenue truly represents.
Nick Tuzenko: inaudible some of a compares. They buy brands which has, let's say one million in revenue. And we are not looking at that because we don't believe that our overheads will repay that. So, we have, usually after the acquisition from day one, there is at least four people that work with the brand on our side and we need to pay salaries, all of that stuff. And when you're buying brand, you usually base it on SD or EBITDA, as we call that, which is not including just four or five people. And which means for example, if we bought some brand, it has, for example, one million in revenue and just 200K in SD or EBITDA, as we call that, and you put 100K in the overhead, it at least needs to grow twice to be at that EBITDA that you bought that, in this first one. And then, you'd also like to grow because you need business to grow. So, it just put much more pressure for the smaller brands to grow because of overheads. And that's why we're not looking at the brands like this one million, we're more looking at least two and a half, three million in revenue per year. And our sweet spot is around five to 10 million, this inaudible brands we would like, because they have a little potential to grow from one respect, from the other, there's enough traction for me to say that it's successful and you can put really a good team there that you can really pay greatly and to push the business further. In terms of... but there is some of our competitors doing only 20, 50 million deals. So, they even look like buying five million or two million brands in annual revenue. So, I do know that even though you said that there's around 80 or 90 different players, I'm like, every time I speak to someone, we're so different our approaches, we're so different speaking about operations, about criteria, about targets. And it's like, I do believe that the first inaudible any salary who would like to sell their business should ask themselves, which of these aggregators are a really good fit? So, this is a good question. And in terms, just saying that, like you said, there's competition. Yeah. When we're looking at the market, the market net numbers, there is around three billion, $ 390 billion on GMV for inaudible sellers last year. And we already assessed that the inaudible of the sellers that all this aggregators could buy is around, let's say 80, 85 billion. And it's growing because each year maybe you've seen on the marketplace pulse, inaudible that the number of sellers who are selling at least at a million per year doubled for the last few years, which means if you just take mathematically, that aggregators are not buying that fast brands, that they are coming to the market. So, the market is growing faster than the aggregators just buying brands. Yeah. Which means, definitely there is competition for great brands, but there is not that, let's say limited supply of the great brands. Yeah. Because if you're comparing 14 billion that's very invested in the space to 80 billion of this worse of brands, it's definitely significant portion, but it's not in a half of what we all can buy on the market. So, that's why I'm saying that definitely, we see some competition, but it's not that radical or aggressive that one can believe, and they see that 14 billion just came to the market, but it's like 80 billion or at least 100 billion markets. So, it's significant numbers and absolute numbers, but it's not like that's significant comparing to the whole market.
Ryan Cramer: So, how are you measuring market share? I guess in that capacity, are you measuring it per category or are you measuring it per-
Nick Tuzenko: No.
Ryan Cramer: ...just total GMV that... per country? How are you guys at team Max... How are you measuring it?
Nick Tuzenko: crosstalk when operation that. We do intend that we are not the company that's generate traffic. We're more working with the traffic that is on Amazon, which means we definitely need to make sure that we understand our market share and we're tracking that, because this is what matters, because if tomorrow we have, let's say two times lower sales in absolute numbers, but it's the same market share that we had two weeks ago, then it's okay. But if, for example, we grew for 40%, but the market grew for 80%, which means we are losing our market share, it's really bad. So, this is why we definitely, we are looking at absolute numbers, but we're tracking market share and we're tracking, we check in the product niches. So, there's some, we have brands which has a lot of substitution products. So, we need to make sure that there's inaudible our product is just getting better and better, and the other is just losing the market share. So, we just need to make sure that we take the product niche and understand how, let's say all this type inaudible whatever, let's say six or seven or eight inaudible that are relevant to this product niche are performing all together. So, what is our market share in this product niche? Yeah. So, for some brands, for some products, it could be only one inaudible, but for our, I would say half our portfolio, there's at least two, three, five inaudible that are targeting the same product niche, and we are measuring the total market share of this five, six, seven inaudible comparing to the market.
Ryan Cramer: Gotcha. So, what is that goal for you? Is that goal going to change, depending on... just because there's so much ebb and flow with new product iterations, new products coming to market and whatnot, is there holistically a generic category? You said it's more on an inaudible level. Is there more of a generalized metric that you're trying to achieve, though? I just want to make sure that everyone's understanding that.
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. Yeah. Just from our perspective, we are not, let's say... Definitely, when we started this business, there was this idea that maybe it's better to focus on niches that has a very unique products.
Ryan Cramer: Sure.
Nick Tuzenko: And buying brands that have unique products, but end of the day, we just want to inaudible that 90% of Amazon, or even 95% of Amazon products, they are very generic. And in this business, priority good business, what really matters are two factors. The first one is cost of goods sold. You just need to make sure that every week you are working on that, that it's like you're keeping that lower, because otherwise you just become really, inaudible as much. You're not competitive. And from the other perspective, you need to make sure that you have trust with all this inside, or it's like conversion rates and CTRs, because everything is connected to CTRs and conversion rates. Performance marketing, organic, whatever. So, from our perspective this market share, what we're trying to measure, this product niche, is we need to make sure that in this demand that is coming to Amazon and people wanting something, with this group of product, like six or seven inaudible, we are targeting the most... we have a great CTR and conversion rates. So, every time we see the boost doing something, okay. Some of the inaudible, they're just better performing organic, which means we have better CRs or conversion rates. Or for example, if you negotiate better prices or have some more margins on the cost side, we invested that in performance market. So, we get more paid traffic and we just account more market share. And for us, it's very important to make sure that this market share will look like growing at any cost. So, how it compare to our margin. Yeah. So, definitely with last margin, you can have more, bigger market share, and with a higher margin, you can have less market share. So, we also try to find the optimum for us, where we have at least some health margins and we're pushing our market share the most.
Ryan Cramer: No, that makes sense. So, in your regards, I kind of always ask this question and a lot of people might have this thought as well, why not take these great minds and build out your own kind of brand ecosystem and launch these products or competing ones, or ones that are going to penetrate the market? Why wouldn't a company do that instead purchasing and then having to be on the hook for millions of dollars and then growing it from there? Why not organically do that?
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. Yeah. A very good question. We ask that ourselves before we started this business, and for us the answer was very straightforward. We would like to be and have scale in one or two years. We wouldn't like to have scale in five or 10 years. So, we definitely understand that we can launch a lot, it's rare but there's two questions. The first one, do you have expertise and process and tools to launch great products? And the second one, in which time you would like to have scale to really have opportunity to invest in all the infrastructure? And for us, the answer was very simple and just, okay, buy. I'm like, first of all, just is really understand that we don't believe that any aggregator will look like be able to launch some products will be alive in two or three years. So, we didn't believe that just buying brands, there is any end game. Yeah. So, we don't believe in that. So, we do believe that every aggregator will try to launch brand, and only that who will be successful in this, they will really survive because M& A is good, but the mix of M& A, and launching new products, there should be some health mix. Why? Because when we look at the sellers, we see that it's very easy to see that in their P& L, that 30, 40, 50% of their growth are coming from new products, which means if we are not launching new products, we have that in two, three, four years. So, for us, it's just obvious that we'll do that. The question, whether would you like to that from scratch or having some scale, having some resources, already having some brands, having some team in place, and then based on that, using that as a launchpad to launch some great new products, new niches, which we believe also there will be some trends, some team on there. So, yeah. So, the answer to your question is scale and timing, carry opportunity to do that faster.
Ryan Cramer: Right. Well, I think a lot of people, we've had, for example, Elevate Brands on, for example, and I think they put it really well as saying, " Hey, you're almost paying for the people to start the process quicker. You're taking it over and you can optimize." And that's what a lot of companies, maybe like an Accel Club is going to be doing, is to accelerate it once it's become viable on the market. So, launching the iterations and things like that. How often, and I'm curious from your perspective, when you're acquiring brands or businesses, how long do you think products are viable on a market as it is once you acquire them? Is there-
Nick Tuzenko: If you excluded fast fashion, heavily R& D products, and supplements, I do believe that it's more about from three to six years on average. There is something to do that will be there, even for seven, eight years. There will be something to do less, like one, two year. But on average, I guess the distribution will be around four or five, six years. So, it's what we believe.
Ryan Cramer: That's on launch product too. It's probably retiring of the product, and it's discontinuation. That's what you're thinking of, once it's launched, it's got to be three to six years or so? Is that-
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. inaudible I'm not talking about when it's targeting, generating some significant revenue-
Ryan Cramer: Ah, gotcha.
Nick Tuzenko: ... it's justone time or whatever. And to the level one, it'll be less than 20% at the peak.
Ryan Cramer: Gotcha.
Nick Tuzenko: So, this plateau, or it's not like a plateau, it's just like this... Yeah. So, by growing, then decreasing just around, we do look at from three to six years from this inaudible. We have analytics inaudible all Amazon, just trying to almost figure out that, building cohorts, and what you see right now, it's from three to six years, it was just plateau around four and 50 years. Yeah.
Ryan Cramer: Right. So, the goal in mind for Accel Club is to take that growth aspect and to really make a... is it going to be more brand- focused in forward, or is it more the operation side that you guys feel is going to be leading the way for you guys?
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. You said it. There's two types of products that we are buying, yeah, and I do believe that on the market this is the same structure of the market. There's a commodity type, and there is more branded stuff. And we like both because with commodity, we do understand that as far as being the top on the Amazon, we are growing with the market. The more market is growing, we more growing. But you can't do like TikTok, or you can't do extreme tracking, whatever, because it just doesn't make any sense from economic perspective. But there's also, like inaudible said, branding stuff. We also have a little brand... products that are actually brands, because there's this emotional stuff. And there's, you can do something, not only about price, but also about perception, about marketing the size of the product. So, we are working with both, and we didn't believe that in, let's say eCommerce, in the future eCommerce, they would be that big split between commodities and brand stuff. I do believe that every systematic player or aggregator, or just organic seller, they will have both, and commodity type products, and also brand type products. What we need to make sure, that we are not investing in branding for the commodity products, because just like it is definitely negative return inaudible. Yeah. And otherwise, yeah. So, we are not treating branding stuff as the commodity, because while we will be pushing on Amazon, the other guy to same product will go TikTok or to other media, and they will get traffic business. They do understand that this, that you can have traffic there and not here. So, for us it's more about, okay, to be really, really clear about whether this product is commodity type or a brand. And it has a different strategy inside us, inside our process as a team. But we are not saying that, okay, we are only like a brand play, or we're only like a commodity play. I mean, we didn't say that. It has its pluses and minuses there and here. So, yeah.
Ryan Cramer: What's the challenges, Nick, that no one's talking about in the aggregator world right now? What are the major challenges that keep you up at night or have those, if anything truly happens in this category, we're in big trouble? What is that big thing that no one's talking about right now?
Nick Tuzenko: I would say definitely we as a aggregator, first of all, we are the seller, so I do believe that we are encountering all the same problems that the other sellers are inaudible, whether it's small or big or medium, and everyone knows about supply chain. Everyone knows about everything about advertising on Amazon. Yeah. So, just their expense, et cetera. For us, maybe something more interesting inaudible about our operations, just to give more insight about our work. The big challenge is how to deal with all this inaudible because when you are a small team with an inaudible, and you're, as a lead, definitely can pay a lot of attention to different details. Definitely, you can have that access to the funding that we have definitely have access to the great expertise, you can afford paying some other scientists or the other stuff. Yeah. So, our big process that we are good, let's say we're more than happy to invest in China office to have other grounds over there in China, talking the supply chain. Also, we're more than happy to invest, for example, we have a team of 12 data scientists and we are working with the data lot. We work with API integration, all that stuff. And definitely, small and mid size sellers, they're not investing in that. So, it's other process. But what is our minuses, and what our challenge is, it's hard to make sure that they are paying that much attention to each detail as that entrepreneurs who we bought these brands were paid. Yeah. And this is very, very special because on the operational side, it's plus, minus, clear. You need to have tools. You need to have some processes and just go, go, go. You know? But from the creative side, how do you scale when you have all these SKUs, how do you make sure that your designers, your brand managers, your creativity, your feeling, your touch with the audience, you have that clear understanding what people are writing you in the reviews? If you're the founder, if you're the small seller, you read that reviews by yourself. I guess you do understand that I'm not reading even half of these reviews, I don't even, haven't seen them. So, we need to make sure that your team at that scale, with thousands of SKUs, they have that sounds, and they pay attention inaudible that creativity. And you can't inaudible it's much easier to scale operation excellence, but it's much, much harder for us, for example, to scale that creativity inside, to working with all the aspects of the product, like packaging, like marketing, messages, all the details, tiny details, the tiny features in the products to make sure that we also, at best scale of thousands of SKUs, we can deliver that. So, this is our, I would say the main challenge for us.
Ryan Cramer: Right. What's your own personal goal? What do you want to see in 2022? What's going to feel good to you, that you know that you've achieved everything you've set out to do this year? What's that roadmap for you?
Nick Tuzenko: Like I said, I'm very inaudible, very pragmatic. Yes. So, we have our targets in terms of revenue, in terms of profits, in terms of the overall market shares in different niches. So, definitely it would be really... I'd be happy and really great if we achieve that. But I'm like, it just the... say, outcome. Yeah. But the real, what we were working is to have the team processes and tools to really achieve that goals. So, for me, it's why we are focusing, is to help to build a team that can work with this every day, very dynamic, and every day changing environment. And what tools we need to have insight, like I think the software, or some process or whatever, to make sure that we can embrace, and we can work with the changes that happening. So, for example, in Amazon change right now, you need to ship your products in 30 days when you create in the shipments. Previously it was like 90 days. So, right now it's like all the logistics, all your direct transportation from China to Amazon warehouses for a lot of brands, for a lot of other brands, just inaudible, you need to have the 3PL, all that stuff. And inaudible I do believe that it will even be changing more in the eCommerce space. Yeah. And we've definitely seen little changes for the past five years. But I do believe that we can expect even more changes and you need to make sure that you have that agile team and a inaudible mind, and you are really iterating with the reality, understanding it better. And just trying to deny that, and how to, in this particular new environment, how to win the market share, how to win margins. Yeah. So, this is very important for us. And I inaudible I do think that Amazon changing a lot. Yeah, we've seen that all. And in terms of the... I do believe that also the relationship between Amazon and sellers are also evolving, and for us, it's also very important to better understand, the strategic understanding of Amazon for the sellers, because I'm definitely that's inaudible right now squeezing more and more from ads. But there's also some kind of, let's say, health margins for sellers to invest in this business. I know a lot of businesses are really, really are, not stressful, they are distressed assets and they wouldn't like to invest more in this business. They have some money they earned previously on Amazon, and they just switching to, I know to blockchain, to Bitcoin, to whatever, because Amazon's just not that sexy anymore. Yeah. And this is what we see in the space and trying to... I do believe that Amazon also very looking at, and they really depend on the third party sellers community. And we do believe that they're trying to also find the balance between, what's the healthy performance marketing plan should be for the seller, what the health 3PL or whatever, because if you squeezing third party seller to do everything through 3PL, and you're having that extent to marketing, I'm like, I didn't do inaudible 30, 40% of current sellers, they will not invest more in the business because it's just like having that much ROI. Yeah. And also, the cost of people is increasing. So, to find a great inaudible manager, supply chain manager, or any other is also increasing, so your overhead has grown. So, I do believe that just the goals, we are very set up, but under that more about people, tools, and processes. But just the overall environment, overall eCommerce space, I would be happy to see more and understand more strategic, how the ecosystem will work. Yeah. So, what the margins is healthy, how Amazon will structure that. Because I mean, everyone knows that rebates and all that stuff are fully forbidden. Yeah. And it's even more clear after November, previous year. So, there's not that many tool to launch new products. So, what's right now is happening that maybe not the buying program right now has not inaudible ready used, but six years. So, Amazon is also trying not to just squeezing ads revenue, but also give us new tools. And so, we're also trying to better inaudible what next step strategically for us, for Amazon?
Ryan Cramer: That makes sense. Well, if people wanted to learn more, or if they want to kind of converse with the Nick, and the team over there at Accel Club, what's the best way to do that, or reach out to you guys?
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. We have a great website, accel. club, or you can reach out to me in LinkedIn or in Facebook, or just wrote to our email, businessoracquisition @ accelclub. pro. So, yeah.
Ryan Cramer: Yeah, we'll make sure we put that in the comment section too. Just in the parting here too, what's one thing that surprised you most this past year? I guess I'm curious for you, and I call it the world of 1, 000 small paper cuts, where Amazon threw all these changes at you. What was the biggest thing that surprised you the most in 2021 that you hopefully will be able to overcome this year?
Nick Tuzenko: In terms of... yeah, I would say definitely my own focus was very much connected to the working to sellers. So, I wouldn't say about the business and the Amazon sell. I would say, I really was surprised with the different communities that are selling on Amazon. So, it was really great to learn that, to connect with different people all across the world, and how that's what different people selling Amazon, what different strategies they have, what different beliefs, how it works, they have. So, just also different and just amused me, because from one perspective, for a lot of people and for some guys, I'm from academic background, so I have a lot of guys who are in Princeton, in different great, easy all across the world, eCommerce looks like very simple and straightforward business. Yeah. But when you're talking to different sellers, and I talk maybe to 400 or 500 sellers, I just was very amused how people have different inaudible how different strategy they have. So, yeah. I was very used with that. So, yeah.
Ryan Cramer: It's definitely a market where you have to be creative then, to stand. It's not straightforward, as you said. And I think that kind of puts the cherry on top of what we were talking about today, is you have to be creative in the notion that you have a great business, but you have to be creative in order to also stand out and thrive in this world. So, Nick, thank you so much. I always tell people, if you make it through a show with me, you're now becoming a friend of the podcast. So, now I'll consider you a friend of the podcast. You're more than welcome to come back on Crossover Commerce, anytime and chat all things eCommerce and Amazon with us. So, thanks so much for joining. I know it's late where you're at. So, have a great night and thanks again for coming on Crossover Commerce.
Nick Tuzenko: Yeah. Thanks.
Ryan Cramer: No problem. And thank you everyone again for joining us live on Crossover Commerce. Again, this is episode 220 of this beautiful show called Crossover Commerce. This is my corner of the internet where I bring people like Nick of Accel Club, who come on to this podcast and share just great knowledge and insights and what their kind of vision is for the future of Amazon eCommerce. Go ahead and check them out over at accel. club. Put it in the comment section, you can obviously check that out on Facebook, LinkedIn YouTube, or Twitter. We make sure we link out to all of our ways that you can get in touch with Nick, obviously on LinkedIn or follow him. And then also go to accel. club. I'm Ryan Cramer. This is Crossover Commerce. We'll catch you guys next week. We're done with this week for podcast episodes. So, we'll catch you guys next week on another round of episodes here on Crossover Commerce, take care, everyone.
On Episode 220 of the Crossover Commerce Podcast, Ryan Cramer talks with Nick Tuzenko and Sebastien Stanley-Jones of Accel Club. They'll discuss how to win market share & deal with the current eCommerce challenges your online business might encounter.
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