Where are my goods? Supply Chain issues for Sellers ⎜ Link Up Leaders Podcast ⎜ EP 99

Ryan Cramer: What's up, everyone? Welcome to my corner of the internet. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer, and this is Crossover Commerce presented by PingPong Payments. The leading global payments provider, helping sellers keep more of their hard- earned money. What's up, everyone? I'm your host, Ryan Cramer. And welcome to another episode of Crossover Commerce. Episode 99 of Crossover Commerce presented by PingPong Payments. Today's episode is titled; Where are my goods? Supply chain issues for sellers. It's just really simple. Where are they? Are they on the water? Are they in the warehouse? Where are they? So, that's what we're calling today's episode. Obviously, one precursor to a hundred, but we'll talk about that here in a little bit later on in the episode. Crossover Commerce is presented by PingPong Payments. PingPong transfers more than$ 150 million a day to e- commerce sellers just like you. Helping over 1 million customers, now PingPong has processed over$ 90 billion, with a B, in cross- border payments. And to start saving money today, just go ahead and sign up for a free account. It's super easy. Go ahead and do that. It's in the show notes right below. Just click on that, go and sign up for a free account. You'll find your ability to save 4 to 5% on international cross- border payments just by signing up. Again, it's free to do, go ahead and check that out, of course, after the show. Don't do it now. Sign up after the show, but it's in that link below. Go ahead and check it out. A big welcome to our audiences watching on Facebook, YouTube, LinkedIn, and Twitter. As always, if you're new to the show, welcome for the first time, this is my lovely corner of the internet. As the intro said, I like to talk to people who are big in the Amazon and e- commerce space, who are big about knowledge and helping other people grow, and taking that one step further in their business to scale up and grow their entrepreneurial journey. But if this is your 99th time joining us, again, welcome back to the show. We appreciate you tuning in. Go ahead and let us know if you're seeing... If you're watching this live, go ahead and put that in the comments below, because, believe it or not, because this is live, you can interact with me and the guests of the show. Just go ahead and let us know where you're listening from. Any questions that pop up, go ahead and put those in there, and we want to know what you're thinking. If you're catching us on team replay or just catching this later on and passing, go ahead and also submit those questions as well. Sorry about that. And you can just tune in from there. Anyways, if you are listening to this as well, just an audio format, we appreciate you doing so on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google. Wherever you're truly listening to a podcast, just search Crossover Commerce. If you aren't already subscribed to it, go ahead and do that. So, as well, when new episodes become available. Season one's already out there, season two, which will be tons of content, will be coming here shortly. I have lots of cool things in the works, so stay tuned for that, when new audio formats are coming out. We'll definitely catch up for that as well. But don't go ahead and do that. Just go ahead and do that, and then, of course, subscribe and follow us on social media. Because, I go live so often, four to five times per week, you want to be notified when I go live. Again, so much content we're pumping out here at PingPong Payments and Crossover Commerce specifically. You want to stay up- to-date on the latest and greatest views as well. So, go ahead and follow PingPong Payments, follow myself. I love sharing content with people, both personal and professional. Go ahead and subscribe and follow us on LinkedIn, Instagram, Facebook, all of the social channels, as well, Clubhouse. We might even talk about Clubhouse later, who knows. But anyways, I want to go ahead and introduce our guests because if it was just about me, it would be one boring show. I'll be talking to a microphone all day long, but I like to feature my guests. Specifically, this is what makes Crossover Commerce so fantastic. Link Up Leaders is actually the direct link to leaders in the supply chain and e- commerce space. Each week, Francois and Lisa, our guests today, speak with industry leaders to highlight all the best and the worst aspects of these industries. They dive into the hardest challenges faced by B2B and B2C business leaders, share perspectives, and provide actionable insights into these multi- trillion dollar industries. Whether you're an entrepreneur, an intrapreneur, a C- level executive, they're going to give you a fresh viewpoint and ideas of what you might not have considered. Also working for the company Noviland, which we've had on prior to this show in a couple of other projects as well. I want to go ahead and welcome Lisa and Francois of Link Up Leaders. Guys, welcome to Crossover Commerce. Let me go ahead and unmute you there. There we go. Hi, what's up, everyone?

Lisa: Hi.

Francois: Hey. How's it going, Ryan?

Lisa: Thanks for having us on.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. This was a turn of events quickly, because, if anyone's super dedicated to the show, you know that I had a different guest lined up today. And they had a miss last second, but Francois and Lisa were fantastic. They answered my call to action right away. I said," Guys, I need help. I need someone to fill today because it's 99, tomorrow's 100. I can't do 100 without 99." It's like a math problem. We don't skip it. Like I teach my six- year- old," You got to go in order."

Lisa: You got to do it.

Ryan Cramer: I can't skip around like that. So, 99 had to happen, and you guys answered the bell. So, I appreciate that jumping in last second. We're going to have a lot of fun. So, I appreciate that for sure.

Lisa: Absolutely. We couldn't leave you with 99 problems.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. And the missing episode ain't one.

Lisa: Exactly.

Ryan Cramer: Anyways, Lisa, is this your first podcast as a guest? That's my question for you, starting.

Lisa: In this industry, yes. I've been a guest on a podcast one other time. It's called Digital Wellbeing, hosted by... I've just totally blanked on his name. Anyway, we just talked about separating yourself from social media and all of the technology that's surrounded by today, so that we can maintain wellbeing in this very digital world, but also still keeping connected to the interpersonal real life. So, in this industry, yes, this is my first, but it won't be my last. I have another one scheduled.

Ryan Cramer: There you go. I had to jump in front of the line and make sure that we're breaking the ice here on the Crossover Commerce, but yeah, thanks again. And Francois, you're obviously a friend of the show. You've been on a couple of times. We keep pushing our roundtable series, but that is happening. It will happen. Part three and four will happen, for everyone who's listening to that. But yeah, I wanted to bring you guys on inaudible. Since I have, I like to call them, friends of the show, and there's lots of people that we're going to be having on episode 100 tomorrow. But specifically, I wanted to really touch on just the supply chains. What's going on right now? And I haven't gotten my thumb on it yet, so I want to bring you guys in to maybe talk a little bit about what's going on. What are you guys seeing in the space? Because it just seems... For a year now, and I think I've seen a couple of articles, it just hasn't gone back to the way it was. And Amazon keeps changing at the drop of the hat, I should say. It's really screwing up not just planning, but specifically, inventory planning. So, supply chain logistics problems, you have things like boats who are blocking the Suez Cana, we're talking about timing on everything. There's so much going on. Can you guys give me a quick rundown of what the hell is going on in the world?

Francois: Yeah. I think the technical term is gnarly. It's a pretty gnarly supply chain.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. That would do it.

Francois: It's not exciting to most. It's exciting to me. I love sort of diving down into these things. And we just spoke with Chelsea Cohen yesterday of SoStocked. And I think she put it very eloquently, where today's e- commerce and Amazon sellers are being forced to sort of mature in this space, whereas before, it was more of a laissez- faire, very much rely on this just- in- time supply chain. And again, a lot of people don't know the history of supply chain. But just- in- time manufacturing actually came from Toyota. And Toyota basically did that to start to cut down on inventory costs, and be more efficient and run on what some may know as lean manufacturing. So, a lot of inventory management and minimizing that, that way they can continue utilizing the small capital that they had. And in today's e- commerce environment, we really adopted that and really got used to that. And so, as we saw Amazon grow over the past decade, particularly as it went from more of the FBM to this FBA model, we have seen a lot of struggles, believe it or not, even with the 10- figure sellers that are very successful and all the courses that are out there that say how easy it is. It has required that this industry evolve. And it's going to evolve with technology, it's going to evolve with issues. And issues like we're seeing today, are really the only thing that are going to push supply chain forward. Without these issues, we're going to be laid back, Amazon sellers are going to keep collecting their money. And then if we didn't see this today, two, three years down the road, it would be even larger empires that would be falling. So, right now, it's actually a fortunate time, as much as a lot of sellers don't think it is, but it is dynamic. Did I answer your question at all?

Ryan Cramer: You did. Well, that's the thing-

Francois: I'm trying to stay on topic.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Well, guys, and this is the thing we keep seeing with people. This fast- forward, it's almost like, this space, we were like teenagers and we just grew a foot over the summer. None of our clothes fit anymore, nothing... What used to fit our model, no longer works anymore. And so, we have to adapt and grow and bring in these new, for lack of a better term, clothes, and try to know what's going to fit where we are in our current space. Are we going to continue to grow? Potentially, it's going to happen, but we're trying to feel what's happening right now, and trying to make that work as we're continuing to grow. And because this space grew so fast in one year, there was no time to fast- forward or grow with it. It was a," Hey, we're going to do this all again." The whole model of, you said, just- in- time now went to, we have to do this now but on a massive scale. And went from being a luxury industry to... I say luxury because people would shop online at their own luxury.... now to a necessity." I need my groceries. I need my goods as a seller. I need more and more goods quicker, faster, because there's more opportunity to purchase online." So, all that just got shoved down this tiny funnel quicker and faster, and it got clocked up. And now we're just trying to catch up, but we're not catching up; that's the problem, I think so. I think that does answer as well. But again if you guys have questions, and you're watching us on Facebook or LinkedIn or YouTube, go ahead and submit those in as well, because it's such a fascinating topic to me. We're all used to thinking, two- day shipping, it's like... I don't know why this concept's in my mind. I think this is like, it's going to come from manufacturer to my doorstep in two days. And that's not the case.

Francois: Consumer.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Exactly. Consumer thinking.

Lisa: Consumer mindset, a hundred percent.

Ryan Cramer: Right. You guys know the drill. A lot of people are like," Where the hell is it?" My bed, it didn't get to me for six months, I'm like," What's going on? Why is my bed frame not here?"" Well, it's because it's on a freighter parked in the middle of the Pacific Ocean, that's not able to unload to get to my house eventually." So, all that stuff adds up over time. Who are the losers here right now? If you guys are seeing this, you guys are in it, in the weeds every single day, who are the losers right now?

Francois: The most ill- educated. The ones that want to do business as usual and don't want to learn about supply chain. I would say those are... Maybe they're not losers right now. And financially, in the sense, they're not losers, but at the end of the day, if they continue building this house of cards, it's going to crumble. So, those that don't want to actually learn about supply chain. And I don't say every business owner has to actually learn supply chain. You can hire someone to learn supply chain for you and then teach you along the way. But if you want to continue building these amazing businesses, I think learning the foundation of supply chain and how it works from start to finish, not just the core concept of," I'm going to have a manufacturer produce it. It's going to ship to me, I'm going to put it in a warehouse, I'm going to sell it." That's the high- level, 30, 000- foot view that everyone is sort of used to. It's more so understanding the nitty- gritty. What is the process from a manufacturer to a port, for example? And that has to go on a truck. Now, let's think about what's going on with the trucks and containers. Right now, we're running with a global container shortage. Well, let's find out why that is? And so-

Ryan Cramer: You're talking about just physical containers to put stuff in.

Francois: Physical containers to put stuff in.

Ryan Cramer: There's a shortage.

Francois: There's a shortage and there's a two- way shortage. So, a lot of it is, of course, being exported from Asia. A lot of it is not being able to be brought back because they're not importing as much. And plus, with the economy opening back up, a lot of these containers are going elsewhere, and they are shipping, maybe not to the US as much, maybe to the EU. And then we're running into issues like the Suez Canal. And then another thing that's not being talked about is that the ocean carriers, these are not freight forwarders, these are, imagine, a freight forwarder is a travel agent that books the flight for you, but you're flying Delta. Delta is the carrier. And so, these major carriers are actually cutting back on the number of vessels that are actually going out. So now, you're encountering a global container shortage. You're having pullbacks from these major shipping carriers. I forgot exactly where I heard this, and don't exactly quote me on it, but shipping carriers are, for the first time, and I think over a decade, starting to see the profits. And they don't want to let go of these profits. And so, they're reducing the number of vessels that are out there. Demand is at an all- time high. And with all of these things adding up, you're going to start to see rise in container prices, LCL shipping is going to be very hard to obtain nowadays. Booking lead times are going to be a lot longer. So, doing business as usual might be one to two weeks, it might take four to five weeks. We just spoke to Carlos Alvarez actually, and he was saying he can't get a container five weeks ahead. That's a long time to actually plan when sometimes you're working with a factory that you have major inventories that are coming out of it, it might only take them two or three weeks to produce. Well, now they have to store. And I'm sort of going all over the place, but that's because there is so much that goes into it. There's so many little steps that no one wants to pay attention to, and they just say," Well, my freight forwarder sucks. It's too expensive now and it's taken way too long, or they want me to book ahead." And so, they're trying to point a blame because all they know is this 30,000- foot view rather than saying," Why is this happening? Who can I work with to try to figure out what solutions we have?" And these are conversations that we have every day at Noviland, with a lot of our users, and it sucks. They're tough conversations to have, but I mean someone has to have them. You're either going to get... Again, I'm not sure if you curse, but you're either going to get some BS from some freight forwarders that are going to charge you bottom dollar and deliver horribly, or suppliers that do the same... It's, always, you get what you pay for. And Lisa, we've talked about it, I think, at length here in the office.

Lisa: A hundred percent. Yeah. Because everybody in all the Facebook groups and Amazon keeps looking for the cheapest solution. Who's the cheapest 3PL partner I can have? Who's the cheapest freight forwarder? It's like," Y'all don't want that." Look, even at the comparison photos of a$5 tattoo and a$ 500 tattoo, just in the simplest terms, you are going to get what you pay for. And ultimately, that's going to make or break you.

Ryan Cramer: So, we're looking at almost this evolution right before our eyes. Just like, for example, we can apply to the science in front of making COVID- 19 vaccines. You're looking at how the sausage is made. And almost, this shines a light on it. I'm going to draw very loose comparisons between them, and not that they are one and the same. You're looking at how the sausage is made in real- time. Like you said, everyone says," Hey, I know I can order a thousand goods and I'd be fine, and not have to worry about all the other shit that has to come with it." Making sure it gets there on time, making sure I have to worry about containers being at the port, making sure it gets unloaded on time, making sure it gets to the fulfillment centers on time. All this other stuff to plan out, it used to be clockwork, like you said, just- in- time manufacturing and shipping. But now we're looking at, we have to break it down piece by piece now. Like, how long are our manufacturers going to be backlogged? Are they going to be able to load it onto a freight, or are those... Yeah. Go ahead.

Francois: Take a step back. Raw materials. And I'm sure a lot of sellers are encountering this right now. And I forgot who it was exactly that we spoke with, but I think it was after our show. He was telling us that his cost in just the core product that he works with, it's his hero product, and it's a product he's been selling for the past two years at least, it's doubled in price now from his supplier. From a supplier that he has great relationships with. All because of raw materials. So, it's not just from the manufacturer making it, it's from where those manufacturers are getting their materials from, where those parts and components are coming from. Again, if domestic trucking prices in China are going up, then the cost to get those materials to your manufacturer to assemble your product, to then receive the packaging, put it all together, all of those prices are going to take effect in that final unit price. And I think that's what's not being talked about. And it should be. I want to shine a spotlight on it. And I want everyone to know that this is not just, you're buying products. This is, your factory has a lot of upstream work that's going into it. And it's hard, I think for a lot, to conceptualize without the proper education behind it.

Ryan Cramer: So, there's so many different ways that we can, obviously, go deep dive in. And I think we have a great time to do it. And again, just shouting out to a couple of people who have asked questions. Again," Hey guys, inaudible the show" Thanks, Blake of Canopy Management. inaudible Stanley, obviously a friend who's inaudible. " Hey, have we talked about inspections and tariffs?" So, maybe put this on our list to definitely cover. I think it's something to consider about, because, he mentioned a little bit later, a new administration, obviously, in Politics, tariffs do go down. And not talking about all the different fees you're getting to import from different countries. Depends on where you're sourcing from. You're talking about China, you're talking about India, you can be talking about all these other countries. If there's a tariff in place, and it might be super high like it was in the past couple of years, there can be a significant, either droppage in price, which helps you out, but there also could be other price wars and other facets that we might not see. So, those are kinds of things that are super fascinating to me. Maybe starting from the beginning; raw materials. So, we're talking about concept. Biggest areas of pain, that I'm guessing they're going to just be anything that's made of wood, metal. And then I'm assuming a lot of it's coming from India. Is that where you guys know? Where's a lot of the raw materials coming from, and why is it such a shortage right now?

Francois: It's global. So, they're importing it from around the world. Of course, they're also purchasing from Russia, for example, a lot of their lumber. And it's not just lumber and metals, it's actually plastics. And what goes into plastics to make a plastic a plastic, it's actually resin. And so, China, with being the largest importer of recycled plastics and resins, they're feeling this impact tremendously. And if you were to Google, for example, price index of plastic resins, I think that's something that could be Googled, you will see the cost of raw materials go from... I think it triples in the past quarter if I'm not mistaken. Either in the past quarter or in the past six months. It has tripled from what it was. And so, that's the core, and we need to remember that this is a trickle effect. If your supplier is buying it for, let's say, one cent, they're going to charge you 3 cents. And then if that components manufacturer converts that into something else, they added some value to it, instead of 3 cents, they're going to sell it for 7 cents. Now, that's going to go up to your manufacturer that produces your product. They're going to purchase it for 15 cents, they're going to sell it to you for 30. We're not putting actual margins on that.

Ryan Cramer: We're passing it on for sure.

Francois: Yeah. Every step of the way.

Ryan Cramer: What numbers are we looking at? What numbers are you guys seeing in terms of uptick in price? At the end of the day, when it gets to me, the Amazon seller, what am I seeing in terms of growth... I said growth. In terms of not even inflation, just the amount of, what I was paying maybe six months ago, now it's here today. Well, what is that pass- along percentage looking like right now?

Francois: 30 to 250%, I would say. And that's a large range, very large range.

Ryan Cramer: It's so all over the place.

Francois: Yeah. And I've seen some of our customers when it comes to the metals, for example, they're more so in the 20 to 30% range. And a lot of when it comes to plastics and lumber. Lumber is a huge industry that took a huge hit. I mean, the cost to produce a house nowadays. I think my buddy just told me it's 50% more than it was this time last year, to build a house, because of lumber prices. So, this is not a supplier issue so much, as it is a global issue. As it is," This demand is just rising so much." And it's a great indicator that the economy is picking back up globally, because, if the manufacturers need more material, demand is that high that they have to start raising these prices. And that's a great indicator or a bad indicator, depends how you see the bubble. But it's a great indicator that things are starting to pick back up.

Ryan Cramer: Well, and this is the thing too. And let's be clear for everyone who's listening. This isn't the fact like there's not enough trees in the world. Lumber is not disappearing off the face of the earth. This is just, the demand has outpaced the supply, and thus, time has come in a factor. And because people are working in these spaces, they can charge more because there's such high demand. We're talking about on the same page, correct? Francoise and Lisa?

Lisa: Mm- hmm(affirmative).

Francois: And the inefficiencies. So, remember the global container shortage, the cost of a container is up now, there's less vessels on the water, so there's less transport, the truckers are able to charge more for transporting domestically or between manufacturers. So, all of these costs are going to add up into your raw materials prices going up. And this is something where, if you ask your supplier," Hey, why is this happening?" Or you try to negotiate them too hard on the price, they're going to be like," Well, this is just what's going on. It is what it is." It's going to be a little bit harder for them to explain, but I think having this knowledge can arm you with," Hey, how can we, together, bring these prices down." You might have a different supplier that can give them one of the major components to your product, and that can help bring down the cost. It's somewhat who you know, but it's also about operational efficiencies and inefficiencies.

Ryan Cramer: So, stupid question; we keep bringing up container shortages. Why not make more?

Francois: Is that a dumb question? A container, in my mind, you see them all over the place, just sitting on docks and whatnot.

Lisa: You do.

Francois: Why not make more if that's the case? I don't have an inventory listed worldwide, but it sounds like there's just not enough made. Is that a silly question?

Lisa: I think the solution is to make more. So, I was actually having this conversation with my family, and back in the day, when the US used to have more manufacturing, we would ship things back in the containers. But at a certain point in time, when we had less manufacturing plants in the United States, it costs more to ship an empty container back to China, for them to fill it and ship it back to us than it did to just make new containers. So, then they were just making new containers overseas, and then we just had a bunch of empty containers sitting around in the US, which is why now you see these container homes and container bars, and things like that. So, my understanding was, that was the solution; was just to make them, but as you've said, e- commerce and supply chain has now, with COVID everything, gotten too big for its britches, as we say in the South, and it's really hard to keep up with that demand. So, I think that is the solution, but it's just hard. I mean, these things are huge. There are so many...

Francois: Yeah. They also have a lifetime. They don't last forever. You have to-

Ryan Cramer: What's the material they are made out of?

Francois: I want to say steel.

Ryan Cramer: They're just iron. Is it iron or steel?

Francois: It's steel.

Lisa: It's steel.

Ryan Cramer: I'm no chemist or anything like that, but when you're on high seas, I'm thinking of saltwater pelting these things, either a bad weather, it just sits out there, it's in the sun all the time.

Lisa: Yeah. They're going to rust out.

Ryan Cramer: So, I'm doing math of, water plus salt plus open- air equals rust. So, in theory, doesn't last long like you said. I'm curious. If anyone is listening to this, if you know the shelf life of a vessel container, drop some knowledge on this. Well, let's keep that... I'm curious to learn. So, if you know that, just let us know, and no guessing, but you have to tell us the truth. If you know that, just let us know. Interesting, so, we're looking at shortages that way. It makes sense. You just not make up... A lot of stuff is trying to, again, pick back up. So, where the demand is, I'm assuming it takes a while to make all those. And you don't think about it... You can't just ship them back to where they come from. It's not just like a reusable container that's go back on the boat, across to wherever else. You have to logistically think about what's the best way to get from point A to point B, and then back from B to A. Whether to reuse them or if we're not doing more export, then we might be sitting on them for a longer time. And I don't know who's stockpiling them, but there's a country out there who's sitting on a nice mound of containers. And you need to return them to their owner crosstalk.

Francois: Well, they're storing PPE in the containers nowadays too. They're stocking-

Ryan Cramer: They're storing and they're not loading them?

Francois: Stockpiling PPE containers is the thing. So, there's thousands of containers out there that are just storing PPE right now. But yeah, I mean, on top of that, like you said, it has to go both ways. I think Lisa mentioned that. And same thing with rail freight. I mean, the reason that rail freight, the prices are starting to go down, is because Europe is starting to figure out what else can you export back to China? And China realizes," Hey, we're saving a lot of money when we're importing more products and we're using them as consumers, of course." But that helps the trains go back and forth a lot more cost- effective. So, you have started to see these rail freight prices start to go down, but of course, with everything else going on now, they are still staying high relative to everything else.

Ryan Cramer: Right. Yeah. We say high, and again, you're talking, like you said, an uptake of 20%, 30%, but it could be super high, which is a lot.

Francois: No. Shipping is like three times. That's different.

Lisa: Shipping is high.

Francois: Yeah. Shipping is like.

Ryan Cramer: inaudible. So, yeah, these are the-

Francois: A container is like three grand.

Ryan Cramer: Exactly. That's what I'm saying. A container, like you said, is three grand just to get it over here, but you said shipping, that's on top of it. It's almost like your container fee, but then also to ship it to you; that's what we're talking about, correct?

Francois: Well, so we just talked about raw materials. The raw materials is what I was talking about; the 30 to 250%, depending on crosstalk required.

Ryan Cramer: So, the materials itself is just really big depending on who you are. Gotcha.

Francois: And that's the cost of the product. Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: Right. So product, is that your supplier? If I'm a new seller, if I'm just a seller in general, I still see that uptake on, if I need to reorder wherever I'm selling online, I could be a season person, I could be a new person, it affects everyone. So, that's point number one. Point number two would be if I'm... And maybe this ties to the other point that we saw recently; is Amazon has now implemented this new storage limit, which again, you hear about all these different topics of, how much can I have of one item or as an ASIN base? Excuse me, not Ace of Base. We're not talking about the group, everyone. ASIN, a base number. So, you can have that limit, but then they actually opened it up to say that there is a limit. Again, correct me if I'm wrong. There's a limit on a account level now. So, you can only have so much inventory across your entire account in an FBA warehouse at one given point in time. So now, there's an issue of, I have to play math really fast, because, do I need to push out inaudible or products that I know aren't performing well, just so I can have my best sellers in there? Or do I need to start playing chance and just let stuff stock out and not replenish that? But I'm getting capped now. What issues are we seeing there for you guys? Are you seeing more sellers start to say," I can't launch anything new at this level because I have this number one seller, why would I give up something to test out a new product?" What are you guys seeing there?

Francois: I think, Lisa, you did some research on how those inventory levels are affecting or no.

Lisa: Well, I did a little bit of a dive, but the information I have is from our conversation with Chelsea yesterday. So, you're right, everything used to be on a per ASIN basis. And it was; 200 unit limit if your IPI fell underneath a certain threshold, which everybody knows Amazon has been changing, willy- nilly, since the beginning of COVID. And a point that you had made, that the landscape is ever- changing, and it is with Amazon too. It's unprecedented that they've made a change like this and implementing it the same day as their announcement, that usually give you time to plan for these changes. So, it is essentially per account now, but I think they said they call it product type. But the idea behind it is to get that product that isn't moving or isn't selling out of their warehousing. And so they're capping you off so you either just liquidate out whatever's not moving. It's so that you're not using FBA fulfillment as storage, like true storage. They want to just be a distribution center.

Ryan Cramer: They would rather be more liquid inventory instead of sitting there as a potential product launch facility or just something where, like you said, long- term storage. There's no place for it. They only have so much space, but because of all of this, I call, crap, there's all this stuff that's come in now, they don't have anywhere to put it. And that's crazy to think about how big these warehouses are. There's not enough space to put everything, so now they have to, by definition, cut people off and say," Listen, so many stuff is going to move." Now, problem with you guys is, how do we take that just- in- time thing, where you guys are trying to get that off the table and try to get more planning involved? Now you've got to get even smarter and say," How do we time it even more right and correctly to say that, if I'm going to, at this pace, for my bestseller now, now I have to make sure that my bestseller goods get there because I can't just let it sit there or I'm going to get dinged." Or I have to basically weigh the option of, is it going to sell quickly or do I take a chance and let something not be there, that's going to be fulfilled by Amazon, which is all these different benefits. It just sits there and then you're losing out on money one way or another. So, what's that conversation like with your customers now?

Francois: It's a maturity thing, I think, very much in their business. So, it's how much, first of all, capital do they have to invest? What services and partners do they have? And that's whether they're our customers or if they're just a standard Amazon seller, if they want to call themselves an e- commerce or an online seller. So, it's knowing where these bottlenecks are created. So, if you have the working capital to purchase inventory, and you know for a fact that you're going to sell it over a certain period of time, based on certain campaigns that you run. We were just speaking to Yanni about this actually, a few weeks back. And you have the proper launch strategies, then you would be able to place those larger orders with your suppliers, you have better leverage for getting better pricing, you can optimize your shipping costs from overseas, and you have typically more options. The more you spend, no matter where you go, you have more options. You could talk to your supplier about storing a portion of your inventory at their warehouse. They may be open to that. That's not to say they won't ask you to pay for that inventory upfront, but that mitigates one step of your supply chain. So, that means you don't have to wait for the time of manufacturing and you don't have to worry about; is the raw material costs going to go up, or are they going to have capacity for me when I absolutely need them? So, I guess to track back and answer your question more effectively, it's being able to store more inventory and figuring out where you can store that, whether that's in the country that you're manufacturing. I know I mention China a lot, but we're talking about India, we're talking about Vietnam, Mexico, Canada, Brazil. There's all these other manufacturing countries. So, wherever your supplier is, talking to them about what these issues that you're encountering right now are and how they can help you solve them. So, you might not be able to negotiate a better price. And that price might go up 30% because of materials, but how much risk are you willing to bring to your business? And if you don't have any products, you have nothing to sell. If you don't have anything to sell, you're not going to make any money. So, I think we have to come down to these realizations of, we need inventory and we need it somewhere, whether that's in the country that you're selling, in the US or in the EU or in Australia, wherever you're selling, where you are going to be paying a little bit more for that inventory, or doing it in the country that you're manufacturing. And I would say being less dependent on Amazon is always a great idea, because, as we've seen, Amazon controls or they own their customers, they're starting to release a few more demographics, from what I've heard. But at the end of the day, you don't have direct contact to those customers. They want you to keep spending on that PPC, and they make these terms very vague for you. And then we see with the inventory constraints, and it changes a drop of a hat. Where before, you primarily would use them for storage, maybe for three, four months worth of storage, now you can maybe be limited to two. And then you're figuring out where else you're going to store it." Hey, am I going to get the same Amazon FBA center? Is it still going to be California? Is it going to be split across two different centers now?" There's all these different questions that Amazon is not willing to answer because they probably don't even know. They just have an algorithm where you plug it in, and they play it for you. They tell you where it goes. So, knowing your options is important, knowing what 3PLs are, not going with the cheapest one like Lisa was saying earlier, very important, and having partners. I think this is a time where a lot of businesses are going to realize the importance of partnerships and relationships and not just transactions. Plus, finding out where you can save. I mean, with PingPong, save 4 to 5% on all your financial transactions when it comes to Amazon and e- commerce. So, I mean, it's being innovative, it's being creative with the solutions, and realizing that you're not alone. You don't have to be Superman. You don't have to do this all yourself. There are others out there that are willing to help. Not everyone's just trying to take pieces of your pie away from you.

Ryan Cramer: Someone's coming for my job over here, trying to sell my out. Look at this. That's my job, Francois, come on. No, I appreciate that. And that's the case. Partnership... This is the time to... Between companies, I think you're seeing a lot more of, how can we get smarter with everything, how do we... The beauty of... You guys know this, and we can go supply chain for probably another three hours. I'm sure you guys talk all about it, but we're going to switch over to your podcast a little bit as well and dive into that. But what I see from a... As a host of a show and many people in this industry, we always see how everyone's touching other different kinds of service providers and industries, and why people are starting to now, either lane- grab. What I mean by that is, companies are purchasing other ones to help be more effective, whether it's PPC or just data in general. Or it's even companies like, I think we saw, Skubana just get purchased by a 3P somebody logistics, something like that. You're going to start to see more of these companies merge, joint ventures to see where in the supply chain specifically, can we be more effective? You're also seeing it too what brands are exiting their business more and more, because, if you think about it, if I'm a aggregator, and my biggest pitch is going to be," Turn on the news, you guys want to deal with this crap that's going on for however long? Why not sell your brand now? We'll give you an excellent payday, we're going to figure this out for you." They have the equity now to figure that out, and also the supply chain, down to a tee, that's where they grow. So, I guess my question to both of you before we switch over to a little bit more about the podcast; who's winning right now? Who are the people or businesses that are in great standing, where they are going to ride out this wave and they're going to be the ones that stay ahead of the curve?

Francois: Lisa, do you want to speculate?

Lisa: If Amazon keeps it up, the 3PLs are going to make out like bandits. I mean, because a lot of people, especially with all the changes Amazon's making, folks wanting to do Omni and multi- channel fulfillment and expand their reach, I guess, I think they're going to win at the end of the day if it keeps up like it is. That's just my opinion.

Francois: Yeah. And then when it comes to sellers, I think whoever has the most capital and that can invest in their supply chain, like you're saying, Ryan, I think those are going to be the ultimate winners. I think you could let your competition die out. And I think that will be an option that a lot are going to start to see is an actual option. It's tangible to just see your competitor die because they have no inventory, they're going to start to lose their BSR, they're going to have to double down on PPC. You can start to own those first pages a lot easier. So, anyone that has a very solid supply chain and that understands it, I think it's more important, and has mitigated the proper risks, those are going to make out. And the aggregators are great at doing that. They're amazing. They understand where these inefficiencies are, they have geniuses. I mean, they have engineers from every level of the supply chain that can analyze these things and say," This is the bottleneck." And they just have tremendous spreadsheets. And I mean kudos to them. Those guys are insanely smart. But yeah, I mean anyone that has a capital, the resources to ride it out, and the knowledge in supply chain to beat other competition, is going to be great when it comes to e- commerce

Ryan Cramer: Absolutely. We got an answer on this little trivia fact. It looks like Ralph Stanley coming up to play, my guy. It looks like corrugated wall panels, frame, cargo doors, cross members... Rob, you definitely copied this from Google. I'm just going to say this. For everyone listening to this on the podcast, this looks like a definition you would just copy and paste from Wikipedia. But Rob, if this is off the top of your head, kudos to you, my man. I know he's sold on Amazon, his wife's still selling on Amazon. So, would make sense for them to know that. But yeah, he lives out there in California. They would know what those things are. Just walk up to one right now and check it out. Yeah. Special steel known as weathering steel, premier material for shipping containers. Good stuff, man. Thank you for that little lesson. The segment of the show is, what is a shipping container made of? So, weathering steel is the answer. Cool stuff. So, you guys are going through this with your customers on a day- to- day basis. I'm curious to see, with that being the case, it's very difficult to figure out, where are you guys seeing where you guys are stepping, and then saying," We're going to fix your problems. As Noviland, we're going to help you ride this out, and bring some value to you in this way." What are those kinds of conversations looking like right now for you guys?

Francois: Well, I think we're talking about efficiencies. And that's mainly what I've been hitting on every step of the way. And even saying aggregators have these geniuses that look at supply chain and analyze it. We own the full stack. So, all the way from the manufacturers, and talking to them through quality control management, through logistics, through fulfillment, I mean, when you own that full stack and you can centralize it all on a platform, and you can use automation to handle a lot of the trivial tasks and reminders and all these parts that go into it, that traditionally are done through email, that are done through Excel, that are done through WeChat. And they typically require multiple parties. So, multiple companies that you have to work with, QC inspectors, freight forwarders, manufacturers, potentially a few other people at your company, merchandisers, or buyers. We can help them consolidate all of this and centralize it to make it more efficient. Now, that's not to say we have every manufacturer that can produce every product. We're getting there. We're continuously growing in that aspect, but we are simplifying the way that global purchasing is done. And that's exciting. And that's why I have absolutely no problem diving down a rabbit hole for three hours on one very specific thing that has to do with supply chain. And I know I nerd out a lot with Lisa. And I'm sure she's tired of hearing about it. But it's-

Ryan Cramer: She knew what she was getting into.

Lisa: At the beginning, I didn't.

Ryan Cramer: At the beginning. Maybe now she does. The beginning, not so much.

Lisa: Now, I'm very aware.

Francois: I get very excited because it's the core of everyone's business. It's the core of the world, honestly. That's in my opinion.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. It doesn't touch just e- commerce. This is global commerce. What we talk about on the show, I use the phrase e- business. E- business is being touched on literally every aspect of the world. It's localization, it's cultural appropriation, it is making sure that you're getting product or service from point A to point B. It doesn't have to just be sold online. It could be your retail inventory, it can be your clothes in stores, it's how medicines are being done now, it's how grocery shopping...

Lisa: Vaccine distribution.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Vaccines. It's how doctors are now looking at their patients. It's how we're grocery shopping now. We've gone from a point of; shopping online was a luxury, now, it's a necessity. Necessity is scary for a lot of people because they either don't want to adopt a change, they either grow with it, or they get burned by it. And I think that's why a lot of people are scrambling now; is, going back to our original point, there's such a growing pain. We're in the teenage stage of what commerce is right now, on both consumers and as businesses. How are we going to evolve and adapt? Hell, people didn't even go to an office for a year. Now, people even say," Is it even worth it?" I know former companies in mind, they're like," We're just going to stay remote. This is nice. I don't want to go to an office." That's a win for some businesses. That's also a pain for retail stores and shopping centers. You know what I mean? There's all sorts of ebbs and flows, but how are you going to adapt. And what are you going to change to make people's lives better, more effective? Awesome stuff. So, you guys have so much knowledge to share, obviously, that, obviously, I would assume to lead into your podcast Link Up Leaders. So, maybe tell me a little bit about why now, why is this the time that you guys want to bring more education to the space? And then obviously, just tell us about that evolution to bring it to fruition.

Lisa: Yeah. So, I think as far as the timing of the show, Francois would have loved to have had this launched two or three years ago, but he just didn't have enough hands, that's why I got brought onto the team. So, Link Up Leaders, like you said, it's the direct link to leaders in supply chain and e- commerce. And obviously, we try to offer any insights or information that we have through our experiences at Noviland. Did I get muted?

Ryan Cramer: That was me. That was my fault. I don't like what you're saying, so we're going to mute you. No, I'm just kidding.

Lisa: But yeah, so we like to offer any information or insights that we have from experiences at Noviland and working within the supply chain and e- commerce, but more importantly, to bring leaders from all of the different facets, so, logistics, 3PLs, PPC for not just Amazon. There's so many folks who are selling on Shopify, WooCommerce, BigCommerce. I can't remember all the names of them. Magento. But really, it's just about education. The ones who win are going to be the ones that have all the knowledge and information to best arm their business and do the inventory planning and management, things like you said. So, Francois and I really just wanted to get this started so that we could help better educate not only our users but everybody that's in the industry. And it doesn't even have to just be e- commerce. It can be anybody working in supply chain in general, talking about trucking in the US, and the shortage of drivers that we've had for a hot minute now. And the containers that, you just said, Ryan, affect absolutely everybody. So, that's all our goal is; is just have a super fun show, a one- hour conversation, sometimes multiple times a week, with different leaders within both of those industries, to just share as much information as we can.

Ryan Cramer: That's amazing. As one power cast host to two, what's been the most exciting thing to start this? And then also on the flip side, what's the most challenging thing to start the podcast then?

Lisa: So, from my experience... So, I didn't have any experience in supply chain or e- commerce prior to working at Noviland. And I've only been here for less than a year. I got hired on July of 2020. So, the most exciting thing for me has been actually learning all of the different fun, cool things about the industry and about Amazon, and all the nuances and intricacies, because, I'm still so green. It takes years to learn everything about these industries. And everybody's learning every day. So, I like learning alongside with our audience and being able to ask those questions that I know they have on the other end. And either they watch after the fact, and it's like," We get the question answered for them already because Lisa had no idea what they were talking about." So, that's been super exciting for me. And just being able to learn all these folks and make these different connections and become great friends with folks like you. I don't know. The challenging part for me, it was just getting it launched. It was just preparing for it, making sure you have all of your... Because I'm very much so a Ts crossed and Is dotted, measure twice, cut once kind of person. And sometimes, you don't get to do that, sometimes your guests cancel, sometimes people reschedule last minute.

Ryan Cramer: inaudible. Hey, we know... And this is no slide on our guests. I know things come up in time. But it's one of those things. We live in a now society of, when you do show live like we do in this one, maybe they don't know that I was going to surprise them, I guess. That we're going to, but willing to reschedule, I definitely love. That's why it's BD to have almost like this Rolodex of people you can just tap into and say, " Hey, I didn't learn in that way. I need to broaden more about this. Who can I touch...?" And that's what's the most exciting thing about the spacer who's doing this consistently; you constantly can go to every topic even though I've probably heard, at this point of my almost 100 shows, of the 99, I've probably heard 10, 15, 20 of them at least be PPC, and they're like, " Jesus. Again with the PPC. God, no" But the exciting thing for me as a host is, I know I'm going to learn a different perspective from each and every person. The same stuff can be taught to me but in a different way. And that's what's so fascinating; is that you can come at it from a different perspective. Someone always says something different. And that's where I latch on to. It's always fascinating to see how people look at one topic and can dissect it so many different ways. So, I'm sure that you guys will see that the more. How many episodes are we at right now for you guys?

Lisa: Oh gosh, I just did the count the other day. I think tomorrow is going to be episode 28 or something like that.

Ryan Cramer: Damn.

Lisa: Yeah. And we launched on March 1st. But to your point of just getting different perspectives and things, I was just thinking about it. It's pretty common knowledge that whenever you're looking for a product to sell on Amazon... I wouldn't say common knowledge. It's common practice, I guess, to not just follow whatever you're passionate with. You want to do something that you know is going to sell well and have a pretty good ROI. And if it's maybe not the most interesting product to you, that's okay. But then you see somebody like Carlos Alvarez, who was just on our show, who we're like," How do you pick your products?" He's like," I know it's not what you're supposed to do, but I go with what I'm passionate about." And he's had wild success. And you see some other people do that and fall flat on their face within the first six months. So, it's just really cool to hear those stories in both sides of the coin.

Ryan Cramer: Exactly. Because one side, you can be super successful and you know what the hell you're talking about. And you can say," I know the problem. This is how the solution is." And boom, you're good to go. But other people are... I've seen guests in the space, who are like," Yep. I'm really big into dog toys, and I don't have a dog or an animal or anything like that." There's not a connection here. What's happening? They're like," I actually hate dogs, but I find what I'm good at."

Lisa: inaudible.

Ryan Cramer: Exactly. Well, yeah, it is what it is. We don't always go into the businesses that... I mean, hell I didn't get into FinTech because I'm a big math nerd. I'm a big e- commerce person, and we solve problems for other people in different ways. There's always a piece of the puzzle that you can insert yourself as," I don't know anything about... I won't say anything. I've learned a lot. I don't know anything about-

Francois: I hope you did.

Ryan Cramer: Obviously I can't do, in real- time... I can't convert currencies across worlds. They say," What's the currency for this country?" I can be a big guess and close, but I won't be like a Rolodex or anything. That's the cool thing; is we're always learning. No one knows everything. And if you know everything, then why are you in this industry? First of all, do you have any insights, or what's your biggest takeaways for doing something like this? Is it the fame and fortune?

Francois: Well, Lisa really made my life a shit ton easier, joining the team. Completely honest, when she joined back in July, it took a lot off my plate, and she was able to make this podcast off effing. So, I am grateful to say that I didn't have too many challenges. I think our hardest challenge was deciding if we're going with the regular schedules or live, versus recorded. And I'm more of the lousy fair side, where it's like," We could go live. If something goes wrong, it's fine. It'll happen." Someone that cancels, it's going to be okay. We'll figure something out. So, I think we balanced each other out very well there. But the most exciting part... And I made that sound very easy. There was a lot that went into it, that Lisa specifically took care of that I was not good at. I knew that I was not good at it. Like the planning, getting the guests in line with you that," Hey, this is what's going to happen. If you go full screen, we didn't drop off, it's just you, we're using it. So, she did everything when it comes to preparation. I'm very grateful for it. So, she made my life a ton easier. She made the show possible. I don't think we would have had a show without Lisa. So, very grateful for you, Lisa. And then in regards to the most exciting part, I love talking to people that are a ton smarter than me. And that's why we brought Lisa on board also.

Lisa: inaudible a lot smarter than you.

Francois: Well, I mean everyone's smart about something. And we get people on that are very, very smart about FinTech or that are very smart about Amazon or PPC. And they give you all these, like you said, these different perspectives, which is exciting to hear. But I am also a big fan of rabbit holes, and so, I start to dive down," What's this? What's that?" And they're simple questions that I thought I knew answers to, and then I always learned something new. And similar to supply chain, I get to deal with this day in and day out. And I get to go down those rabbit holes because I know what I'm looking for. Well, our guests get to tell me what I'm looking for. They get to tell me what is the next step, what else is going on that I don't know about, what should I be looking into, what should our customers be looking into. So, that's the more exciting part; that I get to learn something new every single time we have a conversation, whether that's with Carlos or with anyone else, with yourself, with the host, inaudible. There's so many cool people. And we formed this, also, community. I mean, the fact that you just messaged us not too long ago, and hopped on here, I consider you a great friend. So, I love these conversations. I think it's an awesome community to be a part of.

Ryan Cramer: There will be a day when I meet in person with people that I crosstalk. I've truly only had one person on the podcast, almost out of the almost 100 episodes. Some people I consider really close to me already. It's been one hell of a year, guys. That's how I look at it. But I've only met one individual in person. But that's the crazy thing about it; is that we're all going through this together. I know people are starting to go through conferences, and now we're starting to meet with people. And that's coming and that's in due time, which is really exciting because, shoot, I don't know what people actually think of me in person. I don't know if they're going to have the same perception of me. They're going to see how short I am, and they're going to be like, " What? Who is this guy?"

Francois: This guy teaching his son baseball.

Ryan Cramer: crosstalk say," My God, he's 5'7." Yeah. I am 5'7. I'm a short guy. But that's the thing; is like... This is my hope. I don't think this is the case. You can see a lot and learn a lot from people through the voice and through their mannerisms on things like this. And I truly think people don't put on a front like this. They're truly themselves, and that's why scripted stuff is not how we run this show. It's always like," Tell us more about yourself. Let's learn about the individual." And if they're stiff, they're stuff. Maybe that's who they are as people, but if you can be loose, you can learn information and pull it from an instance. That's why we don't edit these podcasts; is because I can make myself look really cool and really awesome all the time, but that might not be me in that moment, so I'm just going to run with it. That's the beauty of doing shows and podcasts, I think, now more than ever. My hope and wish is that that translates over to people in person. And when we do events and we're talking in front of hundreds of thousands of people in real life, I truly think and hope that that's the case. And it's not just a facade or like a show, if you will. So, that's my thought, but yeah, we've been truly lucky, obviously, to have you guys on and share some knowledge and insight too. Is there anything that... A third of the year's already gone in 2021. And I remember having conversations with everyone saying," 2021's here. Everything's going to get back to normal." We're a third of the way through the year. What's the rest of the year... I mean, I'm sure we'll touch base obviously before then, but for people listening now, what is the next couple of months look like for you guys for just business and what you guys are doing?

Francois: Growth. I think we have some exciting projects that we... No, we can't talk about it. Not yet.

Lisa: I don't think... Not yet. No.

Francois: Not yet, but we have some exciting projects that will be coming out very soon. And we could talk a little bit about it maybe off air, but we got to keep it close to the chest. So, only with close friends, only with you and a few select others. But I think more so when it comes to e- commerce and online sellers, I think this is what they make of it. I think they can use this as an opportunity to beat out everyone else that's not willing to put in the work. I think you can find new 7, 8, 9- figure sellers after 2021, just like we did after 2020. But I think we're also going to see a lot of empires fall. A lot of sellers I thought they were very successful and that they had solid foundations, crumble. And that's going to be very unfortunate. Or hopefully, they are able to sell their business beforehand. And the aggregators, it would help them continue to grow. So, I think it is what you make of it. You can always turn a tragedy into a positive. I don't know how that saying goes. But yeah, I mean, it's an exciting year. I think it's very dynamic and everyone has an opportunity here.

Ryan Cramer: Lisa, anything for you?

Lisa: Well, I was going to say I have a question for Francois, actually. We haven't talked about this yet. So generally speaking, we start telling folks in July, August," You need to start preparing for Chinese New Year." With all the container shortages and everything else going on, do we need to start that now? I mean, how do you see the next six, nine months playing out?

Ryan Cramer: Well, to add on to that, Prime Day was teased or very much heavily hinted out for June, July. And that's already happening. It's too late for that. Yeah, you're talking about Q3, Q4 when you know for a fact that there'll be lots of, again, more online shopping, what's that look like? Good question, Lisa.

Francois: I don't know. I've no clue. I mean, I think we should start talking about it now, but I think also... And I think I need to correct myself from earlier, containers are not$ 3, 000. They used to be about$ 3, 000 going to the West Coast. You're seeing bids as high as 12 to$ 13,000 for that exact same trade lane. So, over triple what they were before. So, I just wanted to correct myself there, but I think it's going to be hard to say. I think everyone should start to... If you think that your products are going to continue to sell, I think you should invest in more inventory. I guess that is the one consideration that I have; inventory, and that's the only thing. Everything else can sort of be inaudible, whether it's the 3PL storage costs, whether that is the ocean freight, or whatever those steps are, those are steps that move your inventory. But without the inventory, you have nothing, you have none of those steps. You have nothing to sell. You have no profit margins because you have no product. So, it's just remembering that inventory is going to be key. Just like how we all say, " During a recession, cash is king," your inventory is king here.

Ryan Cramer: Absolutely.

Lisa: And one quick little just thing that we keep saying for inventory replenishment, is the three Ws. Working, Water, and warehouse. You always want to have something in the works at your factory, you always want to have something on the water, on the way to your warehouse, and then something... I think I said that wrong. Works in the factory, on the water, and then in the warehouse being sold out. But I mean, even just with the scheduling out that time in your warehouse, that's why using a 3PL is so important right now, specifically for Amazon sellers, because, they're taking three- plus weeks to inventory new product that's coming in. So, that's potentially three weeks that you're going to be stocked out, that you were prepared for. And they're just running behind.

Ryan Cramer: Yeah. We're going to have to schedule a whole different... We're going to have to get really nitty- gritty, on like," These are the solutions you're going to have to start doing and think about." I think that's another episode here in the near future for you guys. But hey, congrats also on the new building that you guys had just broken ground on. Is that a thing?

Lisa: Yeah. That's a thing.

Francois: Yeah.

Ryan Cramer: I saw someone digging dirt, so I'm assuming it's a building.

Francois: Yeah. It's exciting. We'll keep that as part of our teaser. But let's just say Noviland is growing in a time that supply chain is so tough. So, it's exciting news. If anyone wants to dig the dirt up, they could find the dirt. It's out there, but we'll leave it as a teaser here.

Ryan Cramer: They have to dig a little bit, everyone, to find it. Look at that. See, more puns. I love it. Well, you guys will have to also listen off- camera and off- mic for this kind of stuff. And we'll definitely have to have you both again. Congrats on all the success of the podcast, which again, we linked below on the YouTube channel. Make sure everyone subscribes to that, and make sure you guys connect with these guys on LinkedIn as well, because, there's always great knowledge that they're sharing. And then, of course, check out noviland. com, make sure that you... The link is below in the show notes. So, check them out if you like what you hear, if you just have more questions, which I, of course, do. These guys are a quick message away from helping your business grow in that instance. So, there's always more to be learned with you guys. So, thanks so much for hopping on, again, last- minute. I say last minute. This happened literally two hours ago, I want to say, everyone. So, it's been a lovely and a great time with you guys as always. So, thanks for hopping on Crossover Commerce today.

Lisa: Thank you, Ryan.

Francois: Thanks, Ryan.

Ryan Cramer: Yep. Awesome. Thank you, guys. I just want to say, again, for everyone who hasn't heard me say it all week, again, this is the 99th episode. Tomorrow's Friday, so it is the 100th episode of Crossover Commerce. What that means is that I've been allowed to go on the internet live, four to five times per week, this many times. So, with that being said, I want to do one more teaser of tomorrow's episode. I have 10 former guests who are coming on to share quick tips and knowledge of what they've seen so far in 2021, and what they're going to be looking for in the upcoming year. I call them a 10 by 10 episode. 10 guests, 10 tips. Multiply that together, we get 100. It was something that we wanted to create and do a little bit celebrating as well. I think it's cool milestone. We've been able to do this. And people are still willing to come on the show, let's be honest with you. That's the beauty of the show; we want to bring more knowledge, more wisdom, more understanding of the space, make it more e- business- focus for Amazon and e- commerce sellers. So. With that being said, again, just to tease a little bit, what's coming tomorrow for our big 100, check out this little teaser clip that we put together. What's up, everyone? I guess we're live right now because it's blinking at me as live. What's up, everyone? What's up, everyone? Episode 32, episode 46, episode 76. Welcome to Episode 80 of Crossover Commerce presented by PingPong Payments. Thank you, everyone for, again, tuning into Crossover Commerce. This is my show that I go live four to five times per week. It's a lot of content, but it's my passion to bring you the best and greatest minds in the Amazon and e- commerce space. I only do this for you the Amazon and e- business community. So, my job is really easy in that regard. If that doesn't get you hopped up and jacked, I don't know what it was. You're on the wrong show, I think. But that gives me goosebumps to think... Shout out to my team, Robert Charles and Jamie, and our new marketing manager, Tommy, for putting that together. They've been really supportive this whole journey. If I have people who come on last minute, they're putting together awesome assets. So, I just want to give a quick personal shout- out to those guys who may be listening or they're doing other things for our global team as well. But just shout out and thanks to all of our guests, of course, today with Lisa and Francois. But, of course, all of the many ones that have come on the show, we're going to talk about more tomorrow, 1: 00 PM to 3: 00 PM Eastern. Again, if you're busy, it's a Friday, I understand. inaudible. Now, you're hearing my dog in the background shake, so I have to go let her out. That's the beauty of this show. But with that being said, thank you for this journey so far. We're going to do a little celebrating, a lot of information- gathering and sharing, tomorrow. So, make sure you tune in. Again, we go live on Facebook, LinkedIn, YouTube, and Twitter. You don't want to miss out on a seasonal episode. And again, subscribe and follow us on social media to be notified when we do go live. I'm Ryan Cramer, the host of this show, Crossover Commerce. Take care, everyone. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks for listening today and asking questions. And we'll see you guys tomorrow on episode 100 of Crossover Commerce. Take care.