Localized Listing Translations on Amazon ⎜ Margin Business ⎜ EP 129
Ryan Cramer: What's up, everyone? Welcome to my corner of the internet. I'm your host, Ryan Cramer. And this is Crossover Commerce presented by PingPong Payments, the leading global payments provider, helping sellers keep more of their hard earned money. Hey, what's up, everyone? Thanks for tuning in I'm your host, Ryan Cramer, and welcome to another episode of Crossover Commerce. This is episode 129 of Crossover Commerce. This is my corner of the internet, literally. I have moved my studio into a corner of office so I can give you a little bit more intimate feeling. So that being said, I apologize for the background, but moving kind of takes a little bit time when you got a six year old, but that being said, this is my corner of the internet, literally and figuratively, where I bring you the best experts in the Amazon and eCommerce space. And today's no exception bringing one of the friends of the show already, coming back, wanted to bring him on so that we can discuss a little bit about some of the things that are going on in the Amazon world. But before we jump into it, let's already go ahead and mention that Crossover Commerce is presented by PingPong Payments, now helping over 1 million customers worldwide in transacting, over 150 million across the world,$ 90 billion to date. PingPong Payments is your go- to location for cross border payments. That includes paying your virtual assistants, paying out your suppliers, your manufacturers, or even just receiving international currency. If you're growing your brand and multiple different marketplaces on Amazon off Amazon, check out PingPong Payments. It's free to sign up and go ahead and give them a shout out today. Let them know Crossover Commerce sent to you as well. So that being said, go ahead and check that out in our show notes or in the comments section. As always, we want to help you out with that being said, but like I said, why are localized translation and optimization even more important than before? And that's a question we're going to be diving into today. We'll break down these concepts for sure, with our friend of the show, Omar Angri of Margin Business. Omar, as everyone knows, is the co- founder with his wife, Emilie, who also runs a business there internationally. I believe last time I checked, we're going to chime in and check in with Omar as well. Not at Prosper Show as everyone else is. At Prosper Show it seems like we were just talking about this, but wanted to give him on the show this week to talk about this specific topic, again titled Localized Listing Translations on Amazon. Omar, let's bring you in and welcome to Crossover Commerce once again.
Omar Angri: Hi Ryan, how you doing today?
Ryan Cramer: Man, I'm doing all right. Like I said, it's been kind of crazy, but that being said, there's always something going on in the eCommerce world. That being said, today's no exception. We kind of alluded to it. People are starting to travel. It's been kind of talked about in this industry a little bit. I'll even throw up a little graphic that we created for the Prosper Show that's going on July 13th through 15th, which happens to be tomorrow. I'm not there. You're not there, but that's not any excuse to not crosstalk eCommerce. Yeah. Well, you're overseas, so it's a little bit different for traveling travel purposes.
Omar Angri: Yes. Yes.
Ryan Cramer: What's new since the last time you hopped on the show?
Omar Angri: Oh yes. For everyone, it's a bit strange times, I mean, in the sense of traveling. It's exactly why we didn't make it to the Prosper Show because flying long distance at the moment is a bit strange crossing continents. As long as you're down in Europe, it's fine, but as soon as you cross borders, it is just another story. You have to read the regulations, you have to check, you have to be afraid that you get locked up somewhere, locked down, sorry, you get locked down somewhere. So I rather stay here where I'm at the moment where I'm familiar and check out the world what's going on. And once everything is going, moving again, then we can jump out of the EU borders again. So for now it's pretty okay where we are.
Ryan Cramer: Well, hey, that's not bad whatsoever. So wait, where are you guys located now? Because last time I checked in with you, you were in France, you were in Germany as well, but are you-
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: Are you back in France?
Omar Angri: No, no, we are now down in Spain.
Ryan Cramer: Oh, you're back in Spain. Okay. So awesome.
Omar Angri: In southern part of Spain. Yeah.
Ryan Cramer: Okay. So the Southern part of Spain, you guys went back there because is that's where originally you and your family are located? Is that correct?
Omar Angri: Yes. We, no, not really. We really like this part of Europe because it's a smooth part and it's very friendly. And from here, there is many destination where you can go because we are never staying in one place. So we are always on the move. And from here you can very easy hop on planes and Dubai is not far, really, Asia is not far. It's really something where you can really fast travel. That's one of the reasons, but generally speaking, it's very nice and it's warm. So it's warm all time of the year. If you look at Germany, it was very, very, very cold. We had minus 15 degrees. So it's was completely crazy. So now it's the opposite.
Ryan Cramer: So it's for people. I hate cold weather. I don't know why I live where I do because the Midwest is probably similar to what Germany was. It's constantly just freaking cold all the time, but then it gets really hot and humin and, that being said, it its just all over the place. But yeah, Spain doesn't suck. I've been to Barcelona. I've been to various parts of Spain. It's always amazing there. And I love, I love the environment that they have in terms of just like culture, but also weather, it's not terrible at all. It's definitely beautiful. So you guys are traveling around, obviously when and where you can, your business actually is. We mentioned this on the podcast back in season one, you're 100% remote, but your team is continuing to grow. Where are you guys growing? Is it still in Europe? Is it still in North America? Where are you guys really planting your flag nowadays?
Omar Angri: Okay. Our whole team is remote. So we have plenty of staff in Europe, in European Union. We have staff in South America and we have staff in Asia. So we're really everywhere in the world. There is no real office. I mean we have, we have a headquarters which was Malaysia, but we will move this as well, very soon.
Ryan Cramer: Okay.
Omar Angri: For now, what I think is Europe is a good destination, but to settle down an office, I mean, really an office, we will not do that because the type of business can be run from everywhere. So if you have dedicated people, if you have a dedicated staff with you, and we have it, it's really amazing because they are always with us, no matter what. They know what they do. If you have people to rely on, it's just amazing. You can work from everywhere in the world. You don't have to have them in an office and I don't say control them, but to have them eight hours working for you and stuff. No, it's really something amazing. And on top of it, because translators, most of the times they work outside of their countries. I think it's because they went international at some point of the career and then they just traveled and seen that they could make money actually living outside of the borders and maybe built their own little business, their own little copywriting business, their own little translation business. And now with the eCommerce, all of these people, they upgrading and finding out that it's really useful to, to do this and helping people as well with this, instead of only thinking about the money side of things and at the same time can travel all the time. What can be better for somebody who likes to translate, who don't like to do a lot more, for example, maybe building a company at some point, but for the moment everyone happy. And I think it's good and we are good to go. We're good to grow. It's all good.
Ryan Cramer: Yeah. So has it been a easy thing to grow in this time? Because obviously your business is a little more unique in terms of translations. Has it been easier to hire growing, vet talent when people are either in one locale and this is kind of the environment that you were going to cultivate anyways? Is that fair assessment right now?
Omar Angri: Yes. Let's say it's never easy to grow a company especially when-
Ryan Cramer: It's not snapping your fingers exactly. But is the environment a little bit more like friendlier towards remote 100% businesses like yourself?
Omar Angri: It is, it is, but it's still challenging because you need to have an understanding of all the cultures you're dealing with because you're dealing obviously with. Every different language is a different culture and have different personalities, different characters. So you really have to make sure that one person is not offended by saying something like, it's a real way to work together because as well the translators and the staff we working with do as well the same, because we are all from different countries. We all have to work together. So I think it's work together. It's not hard in that way, but it's working together. So we all make efforts that we all have a nice time together and can build the company together because without our staff, without our partners, we cannot grow the company, obviously, because we cannot do everything on our own. That's over since a long time. When you work 16 hours and you realize that you sleep on your keyboard, it's not possible anymore. So I'm thankful for everyone, every staff that we have, for everyone that working with us, it's amazing. And the team culture is one of the most important points. What I always need to say and always need to make people understand that it's one of the most essential things, especially nowadays when you have a remote staff as well, even more when you have an office staff, because then you have to entertain them. You have to really, I mean, everyone needs to know that they're really there to help. They need to have a purpose and everyone has a purpose, like me, like you. Everyone has a purpose. Everyone needs to feel to have a purpose. And then everything is good to go.
Ryan Cramer: So is there a lot of different people that you listen to and they're like," Hey, I need to get back into the office"? Do you think that there's a, not negative, but do you think that their success is a little bit more, needs to be hands on? We don't want to pigeonhole people into these sorts of successes. Like you said, you can grow internationally and that's how your business, that's how you start from the beginning. How do you think about people that have to be hands on more like networking in person? Or what about has to have that human contact in terms of growing business? What are the pros and cons and do you think having a remote only business that you're missing a little bit out on that, or what's kind of that thought process when you make that full on decision?
Omar Angri: What I think it really depends on the business. And I think for the future, when we go now and when we talk about future, I think everyone will go remote at some point, or maybe they go in one day or two days a week.
Ryan Cramer: Like a hybrid.
Omar Angri: Sure, exactly. Something like that. Now, when, when we talk about traveling, you traveled yourself. You have seen this yourself. It's not possible that you travel every week or every two weeks and run a company. This is just not, I don't know. I have not, I have not seen this that is possible. So for me personally, it's a minimum of six months where I really need to settle down and work on what I do. I really have to concentrate. And the same is as well for others that I spoke with. And I recommend this for everyone to do not under six months, if you really want to build something, because if not, the whole environment is disrupted where you are, because, so if you change all the time, and then there comes other problems with it, you need to maybe go to immigration, get the visa, or you need to apply for a business license or, or whatever. There's always constantly things. So when you're in one place for six months, you really can maximize your time and really work on what you're currently doing. So back to your question, I think that in the future businesses will be definitely going all remote. And there are people which need to be hands on, as you said, and this is a bit difficult to handle, but if you give straight tasks and exact points at the time of the day what to do, this can be as well resolved. So I think there is nobody who really needs hands on. There is just people who really need, they start in the morning at eight o'clock and then is this to do and this to do and this to do. And that can do it as well from home. That's not a problem. And it's even better because at the end of the day, you ticked all these things and then you feel happy. It's same for me as well. I mean, we're all like that, I think so.
Ryan Cramer: Well, yeah, I think so too. I think there's a hybrid, a happy medium a lot of people need to hit. And I think that this is one of those things we've seen stark differences. People need that human interaction, but a lot of people have just become aware that there's an effectiveness when you can just put heads down, lock yourself in a room and just get a lot of work done, or there's that happy medium. Whatever that happy medium is, I think people are really starting to learn a lot about themselves because you get thrown into an office setting, you might not be effective, or you might not be the person that might be a good fit, but it might just be the environment in which they're working, not the actual job itself. So that's a fascinating topic. So as you guys continue to grow, your business is expanding and growing. We brought you on today to talk about localized listings and why it's super important. So when we talk about localization on the show, I've had a lot of great professors. I've had people and experts in their field who have different thought points around localization. And the best way I can put it as if listener is out there for the first time, and they hear the word localization, it's not just the culture, but it's the emphasis around which someone absorbs information and then they disseminate in their head. So when we talk about localization in your mind, what are the key components that people need to be aware of and why that is super important nowadays?
Omar Angri: So in general, the importance of localization and translation in Europe, now, I mean, it goes to the whole world as well. So when you speak to a person through a marketing text on a website, or when you speak to somebody through a listing, they need to be drawn in. Really, they need to see themselves. If it's a bicycle, they need to see themselves riding on the bicycle. They need to see themselves speaking into the microphone. It's super important that the localization is not just a word. For example, now in English microphone, I'm sure there's more words just for microphone. So when you speak with the person, they need to say," Ah, this person actually speaks to me," and the trick of all of this is that they don't even realize that this is a localization. This is between us, between people who actually understand the business in general. Because when people, for example, from, let's say Germany, they read a listing and it just flow through. And then at the end, I see Uh- huh, Uh- huh, that's it, pictures are all, everything is fine. That's for me. That means it's localized. But if they go into the sentence, say," Huh? What's this now? I don't understand. That's a strange word. I've never seen this," this is not localized.
Ryan Cramer: Right. You're talking about crosstalk. And I think, what specific points maybe can you give a listener right now? Because for example, the commonality I always go back to is when you're selling in the United States and you're selling into even as simple as using even English language, if you're selling in the United Kingdom right now, there's a lot of terms that don't obviously mean the same thing. We are weird in the segment of we drive on a parkway and we park on a driveway. It's super confusing if you're not familiar with just anecdotal words, but stuff like that, where you say lift, which is elevator for here in the United States, lift would be obviously in the UK. So there's a lot, even just in same language. You still have to break it down even further in terms of culture. So I think that's-
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: Where the above and beyond nature of people don't understand is there's a cultural aspect of when we're conversing in the English language, I still in the back of my mind, know what I mean. But you're like, when you hear that word, it might refer to something you've heard in a different language, or even just translated in general completely different than what I would intended to. So, so what are the effects? Is this as simple as not converting? Is this as simple as offending people or is there a deeper notion that we're not even seeing right now that when you don't localize your listings or even just as simple as packaging, you're going to see the effects, percentage points to your bottom line that are truly affected.
Omar Angri: Yes. I 100% can assure you that this will definitely affect your sales, your conversion rate. I'm giving you an example. For example, most of the Chinese sellers, they don't really bother with that. They put this into translation, into Google translate or Amazon translate and put a few keywords, throw a few keywords in, which they gathered without understanding the keyword, without understanding localization. And they still make, let's say they make 1 million per month in revenue. But if we look at this, and I try to explain this as well, if we look at this, he might have made 2 million. So we really look at something here, which people are, most of the times, they are happy with what they're selling already, but actually they can do more. We can do always more. I mean, it's not tricky. It's really something very simple and easy. If you have this localization, if you have a listing localized, you definitely will sell a lot more. And yes, it's an investment, but in order to make money, you have to invest as well. So, it's really for the customers, especially now I talk about the European Union. I know in the States, or you have Mexico, for example, or a Brazilian tries to translate into Mexican Spanish, it's then they will see," Oh, okay. I don't know. I'd rather stick with the listing from Mexico." Maybe they'll find another one. It's something which should not even cross the customer's mind because everything what comes in that second in the customer's mind will prevent him from clicking the button because he has the credit card already in his hands. Why you should bother him with translations, which are like heavy and without flow and really something, the words don't make sense. And the keyword's upside down, even that it is so bad that even the keywords stick out, you know what I mean? So if the customer realizes this, then he is obviously turned off. And as well, if you have listings, for example, we had this example in Sweden. I like to give this example when they translated, Google translate, they had a phrase, which they needed to translate, wrap seat into Swedish, came out rape, actually, sexual assault.
Ryan Cramer: Really? Okay.
Omar Angri: So yeah, yeah, yeah. And this example is a bit everywhere on the internet and it don't make the customer confident about the listing. They would just say," Okay, that's very strange," and if you have all the Swedish listing on Amazon like that, then we all played our chance in order to make money over there. So, really I can just tell everyone, small companies or big companies or somebody who has just a small private label, really look into your localized translations, make sure that they are 100% correct. And then we go to the next stage once you have done this. I mean, this is already good, this is already the first step. And once we have done this step, we can go to the next step. And then next step would be to put the little nice keywords in there. So the keywords-
Ryan Cramer: Yeah. Yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead. Yeah. You're on a roll. I didn't want to interject there.
Omar Angri: No problem. So the little nice keywords they need to be found as well, somehow. So when you have, for example, a non- native speaker, which is obviously really good with all these tools, which are out there, Helium 10, ZonGuru, we have all the different keyword tools, which we can look into and all have different specific, how can I say it, tweaks inside how you can turn it. And when you have somebody in there who is a non- native speaker, he will get you out some words and will put them in, but the native speaker, or even the one who lives in the country and knows about marketing and everything, he can pull out some other keywords, which none of the other sellers has, because most of the time, the keyword tools show you what keywords use the best sellers. So, what if all the best sellers are Chinese sellers, for example And they have no clue about any keywords which actually being used in the country. They just see that red. Okay, red, we pull it in, pull it in, pull it in, and then you have actually a mix of English keywords and some long tail keywords, which are inversed, so a native speaker can go in, pull the data and get keywords which they don't have. So suddenly you found yourself on top of them in rank, just because you use some keywords which they actually didn't find. And this is the beauty of it. And this is why I always say it's really important to dive really deep into this topic because it's not just a topic, like get your item and then blast it on the Amazon page and that's about it. We have then the keywords. Afterwards, obviously we have to look at the photos, what photos work. For example, for the United States, the photos are much more like impact. It's big letters. I'm very impressed by the marketing. But me, I'm impressed by the marketing because I've seen some marketing around the world. But if you have, for example, European customers, they're not very so impressed by this. They want to have what they know. So we are trying to, like I said, it's the same as the listing, if the customer begin to, with the crack out of the hand and begin to think about this picture, he should not think about a picture. He should see the picture and should see himself in there. If he's lying at the beach, he lies at the beach, have the towel in his hand or he's on the yoga mat and doing yoga. So we really need to have the customer like a rolling ball. It needs to go on and on, his score, score, score, he can go up and down, up and down, boom, hit the button. And you made your sale.
Ryan Cramer: Right. I was going to say to add onto your point, I think it's important to know that localization can happen not just in words, but you're referring to, even alluding in imagery too.
Omar Angri: 100%. Yes.
Ryan Cramer: We've talked on the show, too, even in certain listings of who you going to be featuring? Are you going to be featuring a family? You're talking to an audience, just male, female?
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: Are you talking about different skin color? All these things kind of localized under one umbrella, but it makes it important for people to understand that this applies to me in this marketplace. And that's what's the beauty about eCommerce is that you can target those things, again effectively. It's not trying to exclude people from it. It's trying to allude to people saying this is going to help solve problem at X, Y, Z under this culture. And again, there's a fine line between you know what I'm saying here, where it's kind of just honing in on one specific nature and really targeting an audience, but you want it to be, if your product alludes to all these different people, you want to make sure that they can see that and what makes it important to them, whether it's that family aspect, whether it's color or whether it's a certain nature of some sort of wording even. If you're trying to do it across the board, you may not get that impact in terms that you might, when you get as thoughtful. And that maybe that's where I'm thinking about is thoughtfulness of the imagery. And you were talking about that is you want to capture people with the imagery and when they go through the text. It makes sense that you want to keep hold of that person in terms of," Hey, does this actually fix my problem?" And then you can continue to on through there. And I hate it when people generically throw up stuff. It's not solving the issue. It's just the generic version. And that can even go into, and we can talk about this a little bit later, once you've done making your point, of even product listing, product inserts, I should say. And just like a simple thank you message. Even localized thank yous are super important, I think as well. And can really turn you off from repeat business. So I'll let you continue and we can count it off with that, if you would like.
Omar Angri: Okay, no problem. So yeah, afterwards, like I said, the A plus content, the pictures under the main listing as well, it's something, I think it's the, obviously after the first point where we have the bullet points and then we have the A plus content, this is the summarization, I think. You summarize the whole listing and here they say," Yes, that's it I'm going to go for it." Maybe they don't even read the text so much because the text at the end, I think they will fly over. Maybe they read a little bit of it and that's it. Then when they have summarized everything and everything speaks to them, that's it. And this process, it's a super fast process. I think it's five seconds, 10 seconds, something like that. So when they read the first bullet point, they might not even read the rest. So their first one needs to kick in and make the buy perfect. I have an example for this because I spoke already about this, but I really like to bring this up. It's a brand called GNC. Have you ever heard of them? I'm sure. It's everywhere in the States, I think.
Ryan Cramer: Right. Yeah. Health and supplements. Yep.
Omar Angri: Exactly. Exactly. They sell very good protein, whey protein. I'm very sporty person. So I love whey protein. I've tested a few ones and since years I'm taking it, so I really like it. And GNC is one of the brands when I was in Asia for quite a while, the stores were really attractive for me. They were red and I could not stop myself to go every time, go in and look at the products. It's amazing. So a few months ago, maybe a year ago I came through an Amazon store of GNC. So I said," Yeah, it's good. Let's click on it, let's try their products," because I didn't try them before, because I have my own brands. I won't mention no brands that I like, but in general, for whey protein, I wanted to try it out. So I go to their listing and I look at the listing. I was horrified. There was one picture. Then there were five bullet points. What did they have as well? They had a little bit of A plus content, like one picture. And obviously because I have a software installed on my computer, I could see how much they sell and how the keywords look. And as well it was the German listings because I like to look at the German listing and the text, the listing, was completely Google Translate. And there was one sentence per bullet point, which turned me completely off. I mean, for me, if I was a customer who came in like this, obviously I would've as well turned away, not only because I know that this listing is not correct, I would just say," No, I don't really trust this brand. They're strange." So then I put a picture aside with a brand called Optimum. I don't know if it's the correct one. Anyway, they called Optimum and they are really, really big in the US, really big in Europe and they're listing is just you have the chocolate picture, you have the chocolate splashing in the back of the picture. The second one is somebody training really healthy, on and on and on, but still their bullet points were not 100%. And from brands like this, I really expect something, a top work. There is no mistakes to be making. They cannot do mistakes. So my point here is that we have two of the biggest brands in the world And most consumed as well. But when we go on Amazon, they just think because of their name, they can sell, but it's not true. Even if you are a big brand, you will need to put some effort behind it in order that the Amazon algorithm will take your listings in front of customers, and as well that customers will click on your listings when they search for it. Because if the first picture is not good, who's going to look at your listing. Even if you are, I don't know who. If somebody goes directly to the point and wants to buy, I understand. That's okay. But normally not. So then you have, as well, phrases like, for example, in Germany, buy now. It's like, you cannot tell them buy now. It's something. Just an example, when German customers are searching for a product or they see the product, they don't want to be sold actually. They know they're going to be sold anyway, but they don't want to feel like it because it turned them off. So they will go to another listing or same in a phone call, for example, if you try to sell them like very aggressively, it's not possible. So there's these different cultures. And I think, when you are working with so many cultures all the time, and when you've traveled a lot and you understand the cultures and you understand the differences of the people and as well, what they like and what they don't like, and what goes through in one country, what you cannot do in the other country, you really get a hold of it and can as well reflect this on your team, because obviously the team needs as well, even though the team don't travel, maybe, they need as well to understand, to understand that there is different cultures. There is a different ways to talk to customers. It all goes together. What you learn and what you can do and your insight, you obviously, you give to your team. And because the whole thing didn't stop at the listing. The whole thing stops at your staff, at everyone who's around you, because it's really something you need to be passionate about. It's something you need to live, you need to feel, you need to sleep. It's simple like that. It's like, I don't know, if you are martial arts, you do this all the time. You simply live, sleep and eat it. It's natural. It needs to come natural, but still, you need to understand and need to explain it to people how to do this.
Ryan Cramer: Right. Yeah. Well, and Omar, you mentioned all these things, and this is like the advanced course of how to take your brand to the next level. It's not just online business. This is not exclusively to selling online. This is selling exactly in internationally in any sort of business.
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: And it makes sense to understand your customer, but going deeper into understanding. I mean, we've had experts on this show that have said," It's understanding the problem of really what's the effect that your product is going to have on these people? Is it invoking emotion? Is it solving a problem? Is it something as simple as fixing a solution that everyone has? And you have to understand deeper what that can mean. Is it saving them time? Is it saving them money? Is it saving them effort with their children? What kind of emotion are you invoking with these people?" And I think that's a difficult thing that you see, not just major brands, you have mentioned, like those major supplement brands coming online, they're not understanding how to speak to those localized audiences. So unfortunately, it's just how do you bring across your knowledge and expertise in your field into a localized way so that people, like you said, even in the German market, they don't want to be sold to. That to me instantly says, if I have any sort of like buy now or this deal won't last or any sort of those point of reference or point of sale phrases, that it's going to be difficult for me to stand out and to be successful in that marketplace. Those things, to me, are always important. So who can, if I'm a seller in the United States or internationally, who do I go to to understand these marketplaces? Because not, like you said, everyone understands the entire world. We don't understand culture, language across the entire world. Is it as simple as how do I know it's going to be an effective, or if I'm working with somebody like Margin Business, how do I know and understand the effectiveness of that and the capacity that they know what they're talking about? Or is it just casting the widest net possible and trying to talk at the largest audiences, or how do I know that there's that incremental lift or they can sympathize with that audience? Does that make sense? Almost like they lived it, they understand they breathe it. How do I see that through, a computer or through a website?
Omar Angri: I mean, it's hard. That's why we actually try to get out there and explain, as well, the points, because all of these, I think about the localization and everything, translation and, as well, the keywords afterwards, there is not too much content out there. There is a lot of content about listing optimization in English, but there is not a lot of content about the listing translation or generally translating and sell to your customers in different languages. Because, as you said, how can you see that this company, for example, Margin Business, for example, our company, can make this happen? So now what I always I say is you need to try look at their website first of all. Check out their YouTube channel. Check out their social media. Maybe get in contact with them, talk with them because what we actually do, we have, for example, copywriters. We would have one copywriter for the United States. We would have one copywriter for Australia, and we would have one copywriter for the UK, because as you already mentioned, it's just not possible to bring the American copywriter to write for the UK or to bring the American writer to write for South Africa. It's just all a matter of localization, but it's true. How do you know that? And that's where we come in. We are happy to explain everyone. I'm trying to do this through podcasts. I'm putting out videos out there to really create awareness. Because like I said, people are not aware. There might be companies out there, which might have real good translations, but they don't know how to put keywords in, or there is companies which know how to put keywords in, but they don't know how to do translation. And then you have others which know how to do photos, but they say," Yes, we can do listing optimization as well and at the same time, if you want, we can as well translate." So you don't really have one big service. That's why the industry is still very young. I think it's, I would say, even immature and we are looking at a huge peak within the next years in the service industry. And it's there where we actually will see and will understand and where people will, as well, say," Okay, now we understand we need to be more careful of the content we put out, of the content who do we talk target, and how can we sell best to a local customer," for example, because we have this, we see this a lot of times for companies from the US coming into EU, Google Translate, pull it out on seven marketplaces, and then they sit there and they don't sell. So what's going on, yeah? And then there's panic for sure.
Ryan Cramer: And yeah, they blame the wrong people, or they blame the product when it could just be as simple as phrasing and whatnot. We talked about imagery. We talked about listing. I think it, I think this topic kind of goes further and I alluded to it earlier. It goes to how you feel after the purchase. And I find this problem a lot, and I get examples of this on our mass mind groups or just any sort of other people sharing," Hey, about this product, but read this, read how it looks." And I think a lot of this points to what the brand's trying to allude to after purchase. And I think this is a turning point. A lot of people, the way to success is having repeat business and having people come back and opt into you for one reason or another. Obviously lots of people would rather them just fall in love with the brand, love it, love their product. And then if they need it again, whether it's the disposable product or they want to buy it as a gift or so on and so forth, they would go back to that specific brand, knowing that it makes them feel a certain way. What's your take on localized inserts or just directions or any sort of packaging in that capacity, almost like the look and feel, how they describe setup or putting together a product or even just about the company in general? What your take on localizing your efforts on a case by case basis to a marketplace of that nature?
Omar Angri: I think it's, as well, very important, because when you have the different countries a very unique point would be to think, like you said, already before to just put a simple, nice card in there, thank you for your purchase. You're an amazing customer, for example, but put it for the local market. So because normally when you're selling on Amazon, they will be all distributed over all the centers. So what could be good is to write a thank you note in five languages, just an example.
Ryan Cramer: I like that.
Omar Angri: This is how you really address everyone. And everyone will be happy and it's something, or what I always say is just a little thing what might be something general for the European Union, let's say like this way, or for Americans on the other side, a little thing, which will make them happy, something small, without even mentioning it. This is something like you connect emotionally with your customer. They will always remember you for this little thing, but it would be great if you really think about something which makes the difference, which it's not just like a pen with your brand on it, no. It's something, it's something which really connects with them where they really feel," Okay. They really thought about something here. They really care about me, me the customer, me alone," and then you are the customer hero and this is what we want. We want to make the customer the hero.
Ryan Cramer: Great. What's the one thing that surprised you that you didn't think that would invoke emotion in you, but if you bought it, you were like," That's a really nice touch" and you were almost shocked or surprised by that? Doesn't have to be a client, but maybe just in your personal life, is there something that's done that to you that was like,"Hey, that was a nice touch"?
Omar Angri: Definitely. I have been searching mics, for microphone, for the podcast, because I have my own podcast as well.
Ryan Cramer: It's an endless cycle, man. You don't want to go down that rabbit hole. It never ends. I promise you, even though I have a nice one right here, I'm looking out like," Well, I can upgrade to a different one."
Omar Angri: Yeah, I know.
Ryan Cramer: But anyways, that's my two cents.
Omar Angri: But I had one, I bought one for, I don't know, maybe it was 50,$ 60 or something and it was not... it came and I worked with it and I felt like my Mac has a better microphone than than this mic So I just packed it up again and I sent it back. So now, then I really searched. I mean, I searched already, but I was a little bit let myself move away a little bit from brands and, as well, put myself into reviews to check on reviews and they spoke to me, I don't know. But then I found a brand called Rode. I'm sure can. You say-
Ryan Cramer: Rode, R- O- D- E.
Omar Angri: Yes. Yes. And I checked them out. I checked every single one of them. And suddenly here we come to the pictures. Okay. I didn't even yet read the text. I've seen the first picture. And it was a lady sitting in a bit darker room and has the microphone in front of her with this little nice logo with her headphones on and in front of her, the screen and doing a podcast. And the lights were so really attracting me to say," Okay, you can sit there as well like this. You can have the phone nicely having there. And it's a little treat." So I just, I bought it. I clicked on it and I bought it. And this is actually the trigger what caused it. It's a simple picture, which they have made very warm and very attractive, because you can think about yourself, sitting there at your home and doing a podcast.
Ryan Cramer: Absolutely. Well, and that's the thing is, I think we described it even earlier of the kind of the sequences of events that kind of draw you into, specifically for Amazon, you get captured by what's going to stand out in the listing. There's hundreds of different listings. If you're in a search term, how are you going to stand out there? That's the first goal and objective to overcome. Second would be when people start to dig into the details and how are you going to stand out above that? How is it going to solve my problem? And there's even ways to optimize what comes first, what comes fourth, what comes fifth. And we talked about that with Amy Weiss on my podcast with her most recently. So if you're curious about that, go ahead and check that one out. But even like you said, the brand feel, I think that's the look and feel that people underestimate when you get it in an Amazon box or you get it sent to your home and then you open it, you touch it, you feel it. It's packaged a certain way. That's the unseen lift that you get as a company so that when you do refer, in this case, you were talking about imagery. If someone were to ask me," Hey, I'm looking for a specific microphone," or" I'm looking for specific felt board to soften my room" or something like that, I can say," Listen, I like how this was presented to me. It made it feel good coming out of a box because it put my problem at the forefront and they delivered on every single line item." So at the end of the day, you want that carryover to come in terms of brand feeling overall. Starts into the imagery, it goes into listing optimization and then the look and the feel of everything at the end of the day, tangibleness-
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: Of it all. So that being said, you said, this is an underserved community. I know we've had, and we have friends like Jana of YLT translations.
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: We have other people in this translation space that are just seeing crazy growth. What is the one thing that people are seeing that are issues right now that you're seeing consistently that are just no one's doing right now, but you guys are providing that solution? Is it just optimization of listings or what's that one major thing that you're seeing the most?
Omar Angri: Now what we are doing, really, we do the whole picture. We look at the whole picture. We are not just saying listing optimization or translation. Like I explained already, we really look at the complete picture. We have to have an image of everything. We cannot just say," Okay, with your listing, you're going to go to the moon." No, it's not possible. Yeah, just pay the fees and that's it. No, because we have to look at it. We have to check. Before we have to have a call and ask about the brand, about the custom avatar. There's so many things before we actually can go into the real listing optimization we have to clarify, because, as you know, even though you have keywords on your listing, you might not get sales as well. So we going to look at the whole picture. We are an agency. We are doing this since 10 years and we have the staff and the capabilities in order to look at the complete picture. Normally we do a full checkup on the listing and we write out the points, what can be done. And then even we decide if we can do something for this client or not. Because like I said, it don't stop at the listing. We really have to go really deep. And this is something we're passionate about. And this is something, it goes hand in hand with all of these things. And I wanted to give a last point as well for that. It's actually the reviews. When you look in the European Union at the reviews, you have seven different countries, you have seven different cultures, seven different characteristics writing these reviews. If you do not get any value out of these reviews, how else can you do it? So we look as well at the reviews, we build them into the listing. We build them into the A plus content so we can even connect better with the customers. So at the end of the day, or at the end of, sorry, at the end of the few months after the launch, that all listings what you have on the European Union needs to be different. Obviously the text cannot be different. I mean, it's the same product, but like the A plus content, the writing in the A plus content needs to have different subjects, needs to have different trigger points. Everything needs to be adapted to this market. This is really one of the last points that I always emphasize. I mean, most of the people know it. Most of people know that you can search into the reviews by words, you can filter out, you can see what works, what is negative, what is positive and out of this, you can see, as well, the products, what to do with them or what to sell, what not to sell. But like I said, it's a complete picture.
Ryan Cramer: I love that. And obviously it's a puzzle that's constantly changing. So you have to always be on top of it, reevaluating, reassessing. See what's important to people.
Omar Angri: Exactly.
Ryan Cramer: And then emphasizing that.
Omar Angri: Don't have a set it and forget it strategy. That's what I'm always saying. You make this investment one time. You need to do the investment again. It's like a PPC campaign. It's exactly the same. You cannot just flip the PPC on and that's it. No, you have to get in, you have to tweak, you have to change. You have to throw that keyword out. You have to put that keyword. It's exactly the same. It's the same, but this is something where I don't understand that people sometimes think like," Okay, I've translated one time. We just leave it there." Yeah. Maybe tomorrow, people change, 100% change.
Ryan Cramer: Right.
Omar Angri: Things change in the market. Everything can change overnight. So don't have a set it and forget it strategy.
Ryan Cramer: Is there a rule of thumb of how often you want to reassess a listing? Do you have it as a playbook or is there a rule that you and your team go by?
Omar Angri: I would say every three months to look at the listing, to look at the competitors and to do an assessment out of this and then really see what needs to be changed or if something needs to be changed.
Ryan Cramer: Okay. That's good to know. That's a great tip for everyone and listener out there. Every three months, make sure you're reassessing all of your, again, we've had many people who go over listing optimizations, but even not just what the products is telling you. If you're selling internationally, it's very important to constantly refresh. Even if no changes are made, it's always good to make sure that you're aware, that there's nothing offensive or you just need to emphasize something else. Just reevaluating your listings over time, as things evolve and change and grow. So with that being said, Omar, with you and your team, I know Emilie's watching. I just want to give a quick shout to her or Emilie. Excuse me, not Emilie. She shouted out a couple different times too. So she was even saying, I read negative review firsts all the time when she looks at different products too. How can people get in touch with yourself or the team over at Margin Business?
Omar Angri: Okay. Usually you can reach us through marginbusiness.com. So it's like the margin and the business, marginbusiness. com, and as well, just simple send an email directly to me, omar @ marginbusiness. com or emilie @ marginbusiness. com. So, yeah.
Ryan Cramer: You are constantly online. So it's easy to get in touch with you.
Omar Angri: We are.
Ryan Cramer: If you're not following guys on Facebook or LinkedIn or even Instagram, I know that's the best ways to get in touch with you as always. So listener, if you are listening or when you are listening to this and you have questions about localized listings and settings for different marketplaces, obviously check out Omar and his team over at marginbusiness. com. Omar, thanks so much for hopping on today. We're going to see you eventually. I'm seeing crosstalk.
Omar Angri: Thank you so much, Ryan.
Ryan Cramer: Traveling hasn't happened yet for either of us, but I know soon enough that that will happen and we'll get to get together here soon enough. But until then obviously be safe and for another show as always, thanks so much for hopping a on
Omar Angri: You too. Thank you so much for your time, Ryan. Speak to you later.
Ryan Cramer: Awesome. No problem. Thank you, Omar. Again, everyone. Thank you for hopping on Crossover Commerce today. Again, a little bit different setup. If you are familiar with the show, if you're familiar with the setting, you know that I switched to the background. It's kind of the evolution. If you're stuck at home and you want to kind change things up, it's always best to kind of move things around, keep things fresh, interesting, and obviously visually appealing. So that's what I'll continue to work on for you, the watcher and listener as well, just so we can emphasize and bring a little bit more intimate feeling as well. That's what I'm looking for for this show. And again, if you're new to Crossover Commerce, so this is your first episode, this is episode 129 of Crossover Commerce. If you have questions or want to refer back to prior episodes, including with Omar, you can go ahead and check that out in the links in the show notes as well. You can listen to those on all your favorite podcast destinations on Spotify, on Apple Podcasts. You can even listen on Amazon Music. Just search for Crossover Commerce with Ryan Cramer and you'll find us. So thank you for being again available today. I know lots of people are listening or watching from the Prosper Show. If you're there at the show, again that's the show we've been highlighting kind of this week, leading up to the show on the 13th through 15th of July. If you are there and you're listening to this, go ahead and be safe out there. I know it's going to be a hot one, but if you are listening to us at a different time, thanks for listening to us. And if you have questions about localized translations or listings or even just going into the brand aspect of it, let us know what you think. Go ahead and put it in the comment section of our notes or share this with a friend who might have questions about localized translations and listings or even branding in that capacity as well. And then make sure you like and share this episode today. But that being said, this is Crossover Commerce. Catch us next time in my corner of the internet. Take care, everyone.
Ryan Cramer of Crossover Commerce talks with Omar Angri of Margin Business about localized listing translations on Amazon.
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